Sorry to be so tardy re this, we've had extra work to do this month, and also cram it into 3 working weeks, so not had time before. Thanks to everybody who attended on Wednesday, nice to get together again. I set my time to daytime but it still was pretty dark, I guess its a lesson to us lot who moan about the dark days of winter, its nothing to the peole who have to live up there! Anyway as its that time of year, I wish you all a Happy Christmas, and may the New Year bring you Vista (unless you're into Linux!), DX10, a new graphics card, and a new power supply to run it! Frank T.