[jhb_airlines] Re: PCI Wednesday 18th

  • From: "bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:04:18 +0100

The disadvantage with using the old WW2 tower at Jurby is that it is
stripped bare and so we have to cart all our equipment up for the air show -
right down to tables and chairs. ATC consists of nothing but a radio rack
set up for 125.3, a pair of binoculars and a lot of strips and one
telephone. No radar, no DF, no intercom - nothing.

I did three air shows and it was good fun. The room was huge and being empty
the acoustics were awful - terrible echo. It didn't help when every Tom,
Dick and Harry who felt they had the right to visit us came in and
conversation levels drowned aircraft transmissions. More than once I had to
tell our visitors to shut up - something that politicians especially take
umbrage at. <g>

The advantage at airshows is that most pilots are consummate professionals
and you can let them get on with their flying with the minimum of fuss or
R/T.

On one Jurby show I flew the ATC crew up by aircraft so we cleared ourselves
to land.. <g> As there were other aircraft around we also talked to them
from the aircraft - a sort of airborne command post. At the end of the day
we had to get airborne before the airfield closed so I taxied up to the
Tower whilst Martin carried on with ATC. When there were about six aircraft
left he then grabbed the strips and legged it down to the aircraft whilst I
took over the R/T. Once on board I handed back to him and he carried on with
the radio without a pause..  You couldn't get away with that nowadays.

bones

-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 18 July 2007 07:12
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: PCI Wednesday 18th


I agree about the hats off bit.
At Jurby he hasn't an option but to use the phrase for landing. As they
fly in, and at the end of races and practice, they land so close that
they have to use both sides of the runway. He also has to ask that the
faster of the pair use the side furthest from the turnoff. It makes
formation takeoffs look like childs play and must be a strain. At the
last one, at least ATC was in the old tower, with a decent view. At the
first one I atended the controller was in a tent, at ground level....

Gerry Winskill


bones wrote:

>A lovely get out clause for ATC. If you have no controlled airspace
>around you and cannot guarantee that any instruction won't result in
>the aircraft encountering a bogey then "at your discretion" is a
>perfect solution.
>
>Jurby is a good example because it is manned for the air shows - proper
>ATC
>- but it has no zone around it. It leads to a problem in that we can clear
>an aircraft for take off, rather than an AFISO call to "Report Airborne",
>but the clearance is just to take off from the runway and does not imply
the
>airspace ahead is safe. If the aircraft gets to 500ft and then has an
>airmiss with a Tornado thumping along low level then it's just bad luck.
>
>In fact I take my hat off to any controller working at a none radar
>airfield because they are blind to any nearby aircraft. Only pure Mk.1
>Eyeball is available and that only good if the weather is clear.
>
>A comparison in FS is for the PCI controllers to turn their radar
>display off and to work the traffic using VoiceClient only. I could do
>this but that's because I have the knowledge and training to do so.
>It's not easy for users who have no radar failure experience.
>
>bones
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>Sent: 17 July 2007 20:14
>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: PCI Wednesday 18th
>
>
>Hence the classic caveat "At your discretion" ? Much used at the Jurby
>airshows!
>
>Gerry Winskill
>
>
>
>>For the unmanned airfields it doesn't matter what you do because ATC
>>will not get involved - it becomes your choice.
>>
>>bones
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Reynolds
>>Sent: 17 July 2007 18:47
>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: PCI Wednesday 18th
>>
>>
>>Given the close proximity of the strips, I think we also need to plan
>>a contingency for the inevitable "server" lag.  For most of the
>>session we should all be withn the 40 mile range and that will
>>probably cause a significant build up for some flyers.
>>
>>Do we:
>>
>>a) fly what we see - ie. if an aircraft is on finals / take-off ahead
>>of us we go around.
>>
>>or
>>
>>b) fly what we know is current. ie. controllers know the aircraft has
>>cleared the airspace but we are stil seeing it.
>>
>>My thoughts are for a combination.
>>
>>If the aircraft seen is likely to obstruct you in anyway, go around,
>>otherwise ignore it.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
>>To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:29 PM
>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: PCI Wednesday 18th
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>The problem with this run is that we have six airfields to cover.
>>>After some thought I suggest that the three important airfields to
>>>man are St Maartens,
>>>St Barts and St Kitts. Frank has the first so I'd like volunteers for St
>>>Barts and St Kitts. <g>
>>>
>>>The original plan to double up isn't feasible except for maybe the St
>>>Kitts/Nevis pair. For Saba, St Eustatius and maybe Nevis they will be
>>>unmanned but I'll provide traffic information from TTZP (Piarco FIR).
>>>We can fine tune this on the night.
>>>
>>>bones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of franklyn
>>>fisher
>>>Sent: 17 July 2007 13:49
>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] PCI Wednesday 18th
>>>
>>>
>>>Been very quite for this, I assume that after everyone has checked
>>>out their
>>>
>>>scenery, and they want to do the session.
>>>
>>>Unless otherwise, I will be at TNCM_APP Princess Julianna.
>>>
>>>Frank F
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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