[jhb_airlines] Re: F100 performance

  • From: gwinsk@xxxxxxx
  • To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:56:29 -0000

Amazing the significance of the "45 minutes hold" fuel provision. When I play 
it by the 
book, in UK regional flights, that exceeds the other fuel components.

Which reminds me. Years ago, when the Manchester to Heathrow shuttle was a 111, 
a 
friend who was at the time a 111 capt was moaning about Heathrow conjestion. 
Apparently on an early morning flight to Heathrow, with fog still lingering 
down there, the 
London area was so busy that they were put into the hold at WAL. They were held 
so 
long that they no longer complied with the company fuel load regs and had to 
return to 
Manchester to refuel.

Gerry Winskill
gwinsk@xxxxxxx




On 24 Dec 2004 at 17:33, Bones wrote:

> 1. Fuel for planned flight
> 2. Fuel to reach alternative airfield
> 3. Add 10% to the above total
> 4. Fuel for 45 minutes holding
> 5. Taxy fuel
> 
> You remind me of something I forget to mention before. I like the
> switch = on the PF panel that allows you to switch from Nav to GPS to
> FNav. It's the first time I have seen such a beast and it was really
> handy to enable = the FSNav readout on the EHSI. Getting DME readouts
> to fixes and even your temporary fixes dragged from screen to plan was
> very nice indeed..
> 
> bones
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of gwinsk@xxxxxxx
> Sent: 24 December 2004 17:12 To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject:
> [jhb_airlines] Re: F100 performance
> 
> 
> I've flown both the F70 and F100-620, today, to record fuel useage in
> = climb, cruise and=20 descent, for entry to FSNav. FSNav then gives
> me the fuel required for = the flight. Last=20 week, using the
> deafault FSNav figures for the F100, I finished a flight into
> Manchester=20 and, whilst waiting for FS9 ATC clearance to cross 24R,
> all went quiet; = I'd run out of=20 fuel.
>  Assuming the figures I've put into FSNav are realistic, I know I
>  should
> allow extra for=20
> possible diversion to a named alternate but what other reserves should
> I carry?
> 
> Gerry Winskill
> gwinsk@xxxxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> On 24 Dec 2004 at 16:58, Bones wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for that - I was so busy recording values that I forgot to=20
> > adjust =3D the rpm value up from 98. That extra 10 will make a lot
> > of=20 difference.
> >=20
> > Just a quick recap on weights.
> >=20
> > Empty Weight - (EW or AEW) self explanatory but this is a
> > measured=20 value =3D for each aircraft. It includes everything bar
> > the loadable=20 weights. On some aircraft it even includes unusable
> > fuel weight and=20 oil.
> >=20
> > Maximum All Up Weight (MAUW) is the certified maximum weight for=20
> > flight. =3D You cannot exceed this without implications on
> > structural=20 integrity. Often called MTOW (Maximum Take Off
> > Weight).
> >=20
> > Maximum Ramp Weight (MRW) is the same as above but will include the
> > =
> =3D=20
> > extra fuel for taxy. MRW - taxy fuel =3D3D MAUW.
> >=20
> > Maximum Zero Fuel Weight (MZFW) is the maximum weight an aircraft
> > can=20 =3D carry before any fuel is loaded. Effectively it is Empty
> > Weight =
> plus=20
> > Payload. =3D So, the max payload that can ever be carried is MZFW -
> > =
> EW.
> >=20
> > Maximum Landing Weight (MLW) is the weight at which the aircraft
> > has=20 got =3D to be down to before a landing can be made. Exceeding
> > MLW =
> means=20
> > greater =3D stress on the landing gear. This is one reason why you =
> hear=20
> > of aircraft having =3D to circle around for a long time to dump
> > fuel=20 before making a landing. It =3D is quite a low figure.
> >=20
> > The usual calculation method is the start off with Empty weight
> > and=20 add =3D your payload. If this is above MZFW you have to shed
> > load. =
> Next=20
> > you add your fuel weight to get your Gross Weight. This must be
> > =3D=20 below MRW. Take away your taxi fuel and the resultant figure
> > has to be =
> 
> > below =3D MAUW.
> >=20
> > If things are OK to this point you then work out your sector fuel
> > burn =
> 
> > =3D and subtract this weight from the Gross Weight to get actual =
> landing=20
> > weight. Obviously this has to be below the MLW figure and if it
> > isn't=20 you have =3D to shed either fuel or payload..
> >=20
> > bones
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> > [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > gwinsk@xxxxxxx Sent: 24 December 2004 15:56 To:
> > jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject:=20 [jhb_airlines] Re: F100
> > performance
> >=20
> >=20
> > Without increasing the thrust scalar, my climb, at max allowable
> > AUW,=20 =3D didn't run out of=3D20 puff as badly as yours. I altered
> > the =
> Autopilot=20
> > Autothrottle_Max_rpm =3D from 98 to 108. That=3D20 was advised for =
> most=20
> > jets, I think in the Flightsimvets Forum.
> >=20
> > Gerry Winskill
> > gwinsk@xxxxxxx
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > On 24 Dec 2004 at 15:34, Bones wrote:
> >=20
> > > Just a quickie before I have to nip out.
> > >=3D20
> > > The F100 has an empty weight of 60631lb. In the notes it says the
> > > =20
> > >MZFW =3D
> >=20
> > > =3D3D is 79000lb so this means your maximum payload (pax and
> > > cargo)  =
> 
> > >is=3D20 limited to 18369lb. It's dead easy to exceed this as it is
> > >in =
> =20
> > >real=3D20 life but that's =3D3D your base figure for passenger =
> loading.=20
> > >=3D20  Assuming you hit this figure you are only going to have=20
> > >another=3D20  165000lb =3D3D for fuel. In other words never expect
> > >to =
> 
> > >fill the  tanks=3D20 full unless you have =3D3D got a really low
> > >pax=20 load. About  80% is the=3D20 maximum you will achieve. Again
> > >=3D3D =
> this=20
> > >is like real  life - aircraft=3D20 hardly ever fly with full fuel =
> load=20
> > >now.  Obviously it's better to fly=3D20 with minimum fuel load
> > >to=20 increase  =3D3D performance and decrease costs=3D20 (what is
> > >the =
> point of=20
> > >lugging  a huge weight of fuel uphill only to=3D20 bring it down=20
> > >again). =3D20
> > > With the F100 loaded up to max I took off and set her in a climb
> > > at =3D
> > =3D3D=3D20
> > > 1800fpm. At FL100 I increased speed from 250kts to 280kts as per
> > > =20
> > >the=3D20 handbook but =3D3D she was running out of puff at FL150.
> > >At  =
> 
> > >FL150 I=3D20 dropped ROC to 1500fpm. At FL200 I dropped it again to
> > >=20 1000fpm and at=3D20 FL250 down further to 800fpm. =3D3D At
> > >FL270 I =20 reduced it to 500fpm and=3D20 the aircraft held 280kts
> > >and 500fpm up  =
> 
> > >=3D3D to FL310. I didn't try for=3D20 the operational ceiling of =
> FL350 =20
> > >but I'd guess =3D3D you would have to=3D20 reduced climb rate even
> > >=20 further. =3D20
> > > During all this time N2 stayed at 97.9.
> > >=3D20
> > > HC@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://fsaviation.net
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> 
> 
> 
> 



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