[jhb_airlines] Re: B350

  • From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:55:31 +0100

Oddly enough I just grabbed a shot of this aircraft before:

 

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebAircraft/TCX005K.jpg

 

It was outbound from EGCC to Toronto and had a problem so had to dump fuel and 
return. It stayed low at 5000ft and the gear was kept down so speed was back to 
140/160kts. The pilot must have got bored with looking at the Irish Sea so he 
came over the IOM and wandered overhead me and up the coast to Ramsey – and 
then turned round and flew back down to EGNS and headed off for Valley. By that 
time he’s dumped enough fuel for a safe landing and turned back to Manchester – 
the last I saw of him he was approaching WAL at FL70 and 180kts.

 

Handy thing this SBS unit.. <g>

 

bones

bones@xxxxxxx

http://woodair.net

 

From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Nicholls
Sent: 24 August 2008 19:16
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

 

The air hostesses were pretty enough, they were either dead tired or had had a 
frite recently

 

They even forgot to close the galley oven door which opened 30 secs after lift 
off, leaving a tray to clatter down - she got as far as undoing her belt to 
investigate, thought better of it then did it up again - apparently it had 
happened on a flight out of Gatwick a few days earlier!

 

Oh, and they found SWMBO's case - it went to East Midlands A/port by mistake, 
we should get it back on Tuesday

 

Mike

214  

 

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Reynolds <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, 24 August, 2008 7:03:23 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

Bones,

 

Is it true that back in those dim distant days when you used to still do some 
flying and founded JHB, it was your method of “hiring” stewardesses with bags 
of sweeties that gave them their name…. Dolly mixture! <g>

 

Paul

 

From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bones
Sent: 24 August 2008 16:51
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

 

Well, if you can rustle up the air stewardesses for your flight I’ll volunteer 
for co pilot.. <g>

 

bones

bones@xxxxxxx

http://woodair.net

 

From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Nicholls
Sent: 24 August 2008 16:26
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

 

Speaking of passengers clapping and cheering, we arrived in Bristol today 
around 4am from Mallorca in a First Choice 757, runway 27, greated by driving 
wind and rain. The landing was duely applauded by many passengers, no doubt 
pleased to get down in one piece, being in the dark wary at not seeing a thing.

 

I was sitting by the exit ( the seats with huge amounts of leg room ) opposite 
two air stewardesses. One ( the senior one with four years experience ) gripped 
the edge of her seat, you could see her white knuckles, the other looked 
distinctly ify.

 

For once in my life I was thankful for FS. Unlike most of the punters, by the 
sounds of the engines, hearing landing gear being extended and having flown 
into Bristol using FS many times I more or less knew where we were and when we 
would land. Having landed, I cheerful mentioned that it was probably on full 
auto-landing, Bristol now fully equipped in this respect.

 

It does show how realistic FS is, and how much we can learn from using it. I 
can't wait now to try the same landing myself with the same parameters

 

Mike

214 

----- Original Message ----
From: Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 22 August, 2008 3:35:50 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

Quite right, it was the first allowed to make blind auto landings, in 
fog. It was used on the Manchester to Heathrow shuttle too and a landing 
was often followed by an announcement from the captain, that we had just 
taken part in a completely automatic landing. Occasionally there would 
bo only the Tridents getting in.

Flights to Rome were sometimes in Alitalia's B727. Same config but it 
always seemed much larger, inside. Of the two, it was the only one where 
landings caused the passengers to clap and cheer. Often they'd been 
quieter taking off, since they said their Rosary silently!

Gerry Winskill.

tom smith wrote:
> when I was working in the middle east and flying Teesside to Heathrow on 
> a dc9 to pick up an onwards flight which I missed  a few times because 
> of fog at Heathrow. where as the lads flying from Newcastle on the 
> Trident made it. as the trident had a better landing system so as the 
> fog started to clear the tridents where some of the first in. or so we 
> were told
> tom
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
> To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:59 PM
> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
> 
> 
>> Well known as a groundhog the Trident compensated by being a real 
>> bullet in
>> the air. It's turning radius was awful and ATC had to compensate for that
>> and pilot's had to start turns some 5nm before the turning point -
>> especially if it was a sharp corner like JSY SAM MID.
>>
>> I think it was one of the last large aircraft to use leading edge droop
>> rather than proper slats which results in a less draggy wing. This 
>> would not
>> help on landing and would require a greater AoA on take off too. It 
>> wasn't
>> our best design from that era.
>>
>> bones
>> bones@xxxxxxx
>> http://woodair.net <http://woodair.net/> 
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>> Sent: 22 August 2008 14:16
>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>
>> In my previous existence I often flew Manchester to Aberdeen, when the
>> route was flown with the Trident. It was disconcerting to hear the
>> engines go into reverse thrust before the wheels connected with the
>> runway! It seemed reluctant, perhaps because of ground effect, to cease
>> flying.
>>
>> When I discussed it with a driver he said it wasn't half as
>> disconcerting as its reluctance to let go of the runway and start
>> flying, during takeoff!
>>
>> Gerry Winskill
>>
>> Bones wrote:
>>> "I will give that try, but those idents are quite meaty, you need a 
>>> hefty
>>> push to get over them."
>>>
>>> Welcome to real life. There's a good reason the indents are difficult to
>> get
>>> over - you don't want to get into reverse by accident.
>>>
>>> A brand new Commander 680 was delivered to FlightLine at Dublin and all
>> the
>>> charter pilots were being checked out on it. The second pilot doing the
>>> conversion had completed the general handling and was in the circuit. On
>> his
>>> first approach he crossed the threshold and pulled the power levers
>> straight
>>> back into reverse. The aircraft stopped as if it had hit a brick wall an
>>> dropped 40ft onto the runway - it was a complete write off and only two
>> days
>>> old. Luckily only minor injuries were sustained but the pilot was sacked
>> on
>>> the spot.
>>>
>>> bones
>>> bones@xxxxxxx
>>> http://woodair.net <http://woodair.net/> 
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
>>> Sent: 22 August 2008 13:32
>>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>>
>>> Ok Bones
>>>
>>> I will give that try, bu those idents are quite meaty, you need a hefty
>> push
>>>
>>> to get over them.
>>>
>>> Will have to look at the right mixture/condition lever, below the 
>>> ident it
>>
>>> shifts the views, instead of cutting the fuel, the left does cut on both
>>> anyway, not a big deal.
>>>
>>> Frank F
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:41 PM
>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>>
>>>
>>>> As Gerry mentioned in his post a few days ago quite a lot of 
>>>> turoboprops
>>>> produce too much thrust even when throttled right back. Condition 
>>>> levers
>>>> don't affect prop thrust - just engine thrust - so they are not
>>>> responsible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Taxying in a turboprop leads to two different options for a pilot. Some
>>>> will
>>>> counteract the excess thrust with constant braking. This is the lazy 
>>>> mans
>>>> approach as it is costly (brake pads are horribly expensive) and you
>>>> overheat the brakes by doing so which would affect stopping distance on
>> an
>>>> aborted take off.
>>>>
>>>> The better way to keep speed down during taxy is to move the power 
>>>> levers
>>>> back to the zero thrust detent from time to time or even back into
>> reverse
>>>> slightly. If you think that's awkward in FS it's worse in real life
>>>> because
>>>> you have to keep lifting the levers over the detent to get them into
>> beta.
>>>>
>>>> The worst aircraft for this (in my limited experience) was the Rockwell
>>>> Commander 690. At idle it would accelerate quite quickly - you would be
>>>> over
>>>> 20kts in a second or two. If you lifted the levers into beta the 
>>>> reverse
>>>> thrust was equally powerful and it would bring you to a halt just as
>>>> quickly. Taxying was a constant juggling match. By comparison the Twin
>>>> Otter
>>>> was much more well behaved - not that I'm saying I handled one ;)
>>>>
>>>> bones
>>>> bones@xxxxxxx
>>>> http://woodair.net <http://woodair.net/> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
>>>> Sent: 22 August 2008 12:17
>>>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>>>
>>>> Bones
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks to you and others for advice, Making my flight experiance
>> more
>>>> varied.
>>>>
>>>> I still do not think the condition lever are doing their job, could 
>>>> be I
>>>> am
>>>> still on high idle, as evident with the high taxi speed.
>>>>
>>>> I have a payware Dash 8 for FS9, and bringing the levers down makes a
>>>> difference, taxi speed is controllable with throttles only, on the 
>>>> ident
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> Dash stops without brakes.
>>>>
>>>> Will have a look through the AC config file and see if I can spot it.
>>>>
>>>> Frank F
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:33 PM
>>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Looking better. If you can keep fuel burn down to those figures it
>> should
>>>>> give you a 6.1hr endurance which is roughly a 1500nm range.
>>>>>
>>>>> bones
>>>>> bones@xxxxxxx
>>>>> http://woodair.net <http://woodair.net/> 
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
>>>>> Sent: 21 August 2008 21:55
>>>>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] B350
>>>>>
>>>>> EGHI-EGEC
>>>>>
>>>>> FSX + IVAO and online WX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Startup 18.47 Fuel 533G 6 onboard WX 180/10 Q1015
>>>>>
>>>>> Distance 345nm ETE 01:23
>>>>>
>>>>> Shutdown at 20:30 Fuel remain 381
>>>>>
>>>>> Trip time 01:43 block to block
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuel used 152G (a 15kt headwind all the way)
>>>>>
>>>>> Climb power 1600/torque 80/FF 4.7
>>>>> Cruise power 1400/torque 64/FF3.1
>>>>>
>>>>> With CAVOK or tailwind, willhave improvedthe above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Compared to
>>>>>
>>>>> FS9 offline CAVOK
>>>>>
>>>>> Trip time 01:37  fuel used 160G.
>>>>>
>>>>> climb power 1600/torque 90/FF4.8
>>>>> Cruise power 1400/torque 70/FF3.5
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: for power levers on 1400, they are on the bottom Ident, not 
>>>>> tried
>>>>> pulling right down to feather
>>>>>
>>>>> Idle levers on low for TO and cruise and descent, on high for landing
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for instruction and advise, much appreciated, results will
>> be
>>>>> logged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will now go for the long trip 800-1000nm, and see how the fuel burn
>>>>> stacks
>>>>> up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank F.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 
>>>>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date:
>>>>> 22/08/2008
>>>>> 06:48
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 
>>>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date:
>> 22/08/2008
>>>
>>>> 06:48
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

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