[jhb_airlines] Re: B350

  • From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:59:13 +0100

Well known as a groundhog the Trident compensated by being a real bullet in
the air. It's turning radius was awful and ATC had to compensate for that
and pilot's had to start turns some 5nm before the turning point -
especially if it was a sharp corner like JSY SAM MID.

I think it was one of the last large aircraft to use leading edge droop
rather than proper slats which results in a less draggy wing. This would not
help on landing and would require a greater AoA on take off too. It wasn't
our best design from that era.

bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 22 August 2008 14:16
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

In my previous existence I often flew Manchester to Aberdeen, when the 
route was flown with the Trident. It was disconcerting to hear the 
engines go into reverse thrust before the wheels connected with the 
runway! It seemed reluctant, perhaps because of ground effect, to cease 
flying.

When I discussed it with a driver he said it wasn't half as 
disconcerting as its reluctance to let go of the runway and start 
flying, during takeoff!

Gerry Winskill

Bones wrote:
> "I will give that try, but those idents are quite meaty, you need a hefty
> push to get over them."
> 
> Welcome to real life. There's a good reason the indents are difficult to
get
> over - you don't want to get into reverse by accident.
> 
> A brand new Commander 680 was delivered to FlightLine at Dublin and all
the
> charter pilots were being checked out on it. The second pilot doing the
> conversion had completed the general handling and was in the circuit. On
his
> first approach he crossed the threshold and pulled the power levers
straight
> back into reverse. The aircraft stopped as if it had hit a brick wall an
> dropped 40ft onto the runway - it was a complete write off and only two
days
> old. Luckily only minor injuries were sustained but the pilot was sacked
on
> the spot.
> 
> bones
> bones@xxxxxxx
> http://woodair.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
> Sent: 22 August 2008 13:32
> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
> 
> Ok Bones
> 
> I will give that try, bu those idents are quite meaty, you need a hefty
push
> 
> to get over them.
> 
> Will have to look at the right mixture/condition lever, below the ident it

> shifts the views, instead of cutting the fuel, the left does cut on both 
> anyway, not a big deal.
> 
> Frank F
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
> To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:41 PM
> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
> 
> 
>> As Gerry mentioned in his post a few days ago quite a lot of turoboprops
>> produce too much thrust even when throttled right back. Condition levers
>> don't affect prop thrust - just engine thrust - so they are not 
>> responsible.
>>
>>
>> Taxying in a turboprop leads to two different options for a pilot. Some 
>> will
>> counteract the excess thrust with constant braking. This is the lazy mans
>> approach as it is costly (brake pads are horribly expensive) and you
>> overheat the brakes by doing so which would affect stopping distance on
an
>> aborted take off.
>>
>> The better way to keep speed down during taxy is to move the power levers
>> back to the zero thrust detent from time to time or even back into
reverse
>> slightly. If you think that's awkward in FS it's worse in real life 
>> because
>> you have to keep lifting the levers over the detent to get them into
beta.
>>
>> The worst aircraft for this (in my limited experience) was the Rockwell
>> Commander 690. At idle it would accelerate quite quickly - you would be 
>> over
>> 20kts in a second or two. If you lifted the levers into beta the reverse
>> thrust was equally powerful and it would bring you to a halt just as
>> quickly. Taxying was a constant juggling match. By comparison the Twin 
>> Otter
>> was much more well behaved - not that I'm saying I handled one ;)
>>
>> bones
>> bones@xxxxxxx
>> http://woodair.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
>> Sent: 22 August 2008 12:17
>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>
>> Bones
>>
>> Many thanks to you and others for advice, Making my flight experiance
more
>> varied.
>>
>> I still do not think the condition lever are doing their job, could be I 
>> am
>> still on high idle, as evident with the high taxi speed.
>>
>> I have a payware Dash 8 for FS9, and bringing the levers down makes a
>> difference, taxi speed is controllable with throttles only, on the ident 
>> the
>>
>> Dash stops without brakes.
>>
>> Will have a look through the AC config file and see if I can spot it.
>>
>> Frank F
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:33 PM
>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350
>>
>>
>>> Looking better. If you can keep fuel burn down to those figures it
should
>>> give you a 6.1hr endurance which is roughly a 1500nm range.
>>>
>>> bones
>>> bones@xxxxxxx
>>> http://woodair.net
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
>>> Sent: 21 August 2008 21:55
>>> To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [jhb_airlines] B350
>>>
>>> EGHI-EGEC
>>>
>>> FSX + IVAO and online WX.
>>>
>>> Startup 18.47 Fuel 533G 6 onboard WX 180/10 Q1015
>>>
>>> Distance 345nm ETE 01:23
>>>
>>> Shutdown at 20:30 Fuel remain 381
>>>
>>> Trip time 01:43 block to block
>>>
>>> Fuel used 152G (a 15kt headwind all the way)
>>>
>>> Climb power 1600/torque 80/FF 4.7
>>> Cruise power 1400/torque 64/FF3.1
>>>
>>> With CAVOK or tailwind, willhave improvedthe above.
>>>
>>> Compared to
>>>
>>> FS9 offline CAVOK
>>>
>>> Trip time 01:37  fuel used 160G.
>>>
>>> climb power 1600/torque 90/FF4.8
>>> Cruise power 1400/torque 70/FF3.5
>>>
>>> Note: for power levers on 1400, they are on the bottom Ident, not tried
>>> pulling right down to feather
>>>
>>> Idle levers on low for TO and cruise and descent, on high for landing
>>>
>>> Many thanks for instruction and advise, much appreciated, results will
be
>>> logged.
>>>
>>> Will now go for the long trip 800-1000nm, and see how the fuel burn 
>>> stacks
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Frank F.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 
>>> 22/08/2008
>>> 06:48
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date:
22/08/2008
> 
>> 06:48
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


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