[jhb_airlines] Re: B350

  • From: "Fred Stopforth" <fredstopforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:34:37 +0100

Well Bones, here's a report of my EKVG / BIRK effort to follow your B350 info --- Startup to Blocks 2hrs:9mins // dist covered 523nm // fuel used 186.7 // fuel load 359 Gals // 6 Passengers 740lbs // Power 92% down to 62% probably av of 80% // Prop 75% down to39%; in cruise it was constant 49% // Cond After initial manual setting of 58% I dropped to 49% constant after T.O. // ITT 65%+_ //TOR hi70,in cruise av 63%,lo55% // Prop rev 1700 clb,1550 cruise, 1600 land // Gas rev constant 90-85 // fuel flow 4+ then constant 3.20+ // Oil temp 30 press125.// Real weather, clear scattered clouds not much wind . Heck watching and noting instruments record,setting levers , watching GP, radio stack, taking off and landing ; I'm knackered and ready for a good pint; but I've enjoyed it. Don't know if the figures given would indicate that I would have in reality damaged an aircraft. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>

To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


207 gallons for 2.16hrs is a tad high and you should be able to shave some
off with better engine management. Here's a quote from a B350 flight report:

"Initial climb rate topped 2,000 fpm, and in 15 minutes the 350 was level at
27,000 feet, despite air temperatures at least 9º F above standard all the
way up. The high 20s are good altitudes for the 350 because it cruises right
around 300 knots true airspeed with a fuel flow of about 650 pounds per
hour. The mid-to-high 20s are not crowded altitudes, and the tanks' full
range at maximum power is at least 1,000 nm with enough reserves to continue
to an alternate 100 nm from the destination.

Except for takeoff, all climb and cruise is conducted with the propellers
set at a slow 1500 rpm. At that setting you are aware of the props in the
cockpit, but in the aft club chairs the sound could be as easily coming from
a jet engine as a turboprop. And the vibration level compares very
favourably with a business jet."

So it looks like you need to get those props back further to 1500rpm which
is lower than the B200 series. You also need to respect torque limits but I
don't know if FS publishes these. On take off throttles are advanced to
torque limit only in real life - but there again engines don't blow up in FS and it's a shame because users don't learn any respect for correct settings.

Just two more figures for you to digest taken from the King Air manual.

FL240, 312kts -fuel flow 128usg
FL330, 237kts - fuel flow 61usg.

That is why most King Air operators stay around the 250kt level - it keeps
fuel costs down a lot.

bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fred Stopforth
Sent: 19 August 2008 15:45
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

Did my return flight BIRK--> EKVG.Dist covered with Go Round 504 nm / fuel
207 Gals / GS 232 Knts / Start to Blocks 2hrs:10mins / ITT 700 /Torq 75 /

Prop rev 1600 /Gas rev90 / fuel flow 40+ /oil 45 press125 . fuel loaded

359 Gals + 6 pass. Default BE350. Saitek Cyborg J/stick used .Yoke and
Pedals boxed till cockpit room is done.At least I got my fuel quantity down
a bit and shifted a bit quicker trying at Fl210. Knackered now ready for a
glass of wine.  Fred
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


What would be interesting is for several pilots to fly an identical route
using identical values and then compare times and fuel burn afterwards.
For
this to work everyone would have to start off with the same fuel load and
pax load so that AUW is identical and fly an identical route. Differences
would then show up purely through handling and engine management.

To get up to FL250 for a reasonable time a sector length of about 300nm
would be about right -just over an hour's flight. An example would be
Southampton to Campbeltown via BCN WAL IOM and BLACA. As I don't have FS
running I can't suggest nominal power settings but Condition levers should
be at Flight Idle and Props at 1700rpm. Ideally power should be set to
produce a TAS of 250kts which would probably be about 170kts IAS.

bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net

-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fred Stopforth
Sent: 19 August 2008 08:27
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

Ah will try that altitude on the way back and see what I report.This
exercise is giving me a little interest. Thanks. Fred
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:09 AM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


Normal cruising altitude for a King Air is FL250 or thereabouts and the
fuel
burn drops off significantly at that height.

bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fred Stopforth
Sent: 19 August 2008 01:22
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

Hi Frank thought I would have a go at your EKVG --> BIRK  IFR and see
what
the comparison might be. Here's my report --  covered 525nm /used 230
gals

/

GS 217knts / Start to shutdown 2hrs 25 mins.  Cond 45% /Props 60% /Throt
85/99% //Prop revs were 1600.Just wondered how we compared in our flight
effort.BTW I went to 12500'.  Fred
----- Original Message ----- From: "F FISHER" <ffisher991@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


Like Gerry says, it is going to be a case of a lot of trials and
paperwork.

Just taken off from Vagar on route Rek online.

All levers full on in climb, used 110G!! (start 417)speed 210 IAS

Power back to 85 % torque(75%) speed 210 still FF 5.TAS(per FSC)261.

Have altered FSC database to show cruise speed 215 range 1000, the FP
distance is 417 time 2hours.

We will see what time I arrive.

But still gobbling up fuel!!

Frank F

Ps off to bathroom, back in 15 minutes



----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


It's NOT a mixture lever Frank. Mixture levers only exist on pistons.
It's a
Condition lever and it's not got anything to do with fuel flow. It only
has
High Idle (used for reverse thrust) Low Idle (used for everything else)
and
Cut Off positions. You can waggle it about all you want in flight but
it
won't do anything.

Fuel flow on a turboprop is automatically metered and controlled by
Power
and Prop levers settings. If you are burning too much fuel it's because
you
are using the wrong Power or Prop values.

As I've said before a turboprop is a JET engine and it works exactly
the
same way. Jets don't have mixture either.



bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
Sent: 18 August 2008 19:22
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350

This is why I am altering the FSC database to suit.

The B350 has 3 sets of levers all Black

My physical layout is the Saitek Yoke with twin throttles, 3 levers on
each(Black Blue and Red)

The mixture lever(Red) alters the fuel flow not by much but is around
5,
I
alter the power and condition levers to keep under the red line at
about
75%. Closing the Mixture lever completely, cuts the engines.

I bring the mix control down during the climb to 25% at FL100

Max climb is about 160, and cruise 210, totally different to the FSC
database. With a tail wind, this will go up to about 230, at FL150.

FSC bases it flight time and distance according to it's database which
to

my

mind is not accurate.Someone needs to do some research.

I have yet to find an FS aircraft that performs to stated spec.As far
as
FSC

is concerned anyway.

Even in formation, I have to max the power to match other online
flyers.
But

that is another issue.

The other issue I have to sort out is the v.high taxi speed, but I
think
this is something to do with the condition lever, normally keeping the
speed

down with the brakes and also steering with the brakes.

I like the aircraft, but do need to learn how to use it to best
advantage.

Frank F





----- Original Message ----- From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: B350


FSC has the distance a bit wrong - it's just 801nm direct. It's got
the
range totally wrong too - a King Air can't stay up for 16 hours
(4100/250).
Just over 1000nm with no reserves would be a better figure.

The King Air doesn't have a mixture control (no turboprops do). They
have
Power, Prop and Condition levers so I can't guess what levers you are
referring to. Fuel flow rate is determined by the power and prop
settings
so
you may need to check these to stop drinking too much of the
stuff -props
need only be around 1700-1900. The condition levers only have High
Idle,
Low
Idle and Cutoff positions and you never touch these after engines are
started.

bones
bones@xxxxxxx
http://woodair.net


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F FISHER
Sent: 18 August 2008 16:35
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] B350

Beech King Air 350.

Currently doing a run from EGNS-BIRK

FSC states distance 881nm 2:52mins at cruise speed 512kts.

Am set with Mixture at 25%, condition at 75% power 75%.

KIAS on FSX 260kts.

220 nm short of ING, now right turn 90 for Vagar to refuel as down to
100G
from 425G

I am in the proces of realtering the aircraft database in FSC to
reflect
to
the true air speed I am attaining, this should give me a truer flight
time.

FSC aircraft database  gives a range of 4100nm, no way, with full
tanks
should I have to divert, am I doing something wrong??

Or should Ibe flying something with a higher range.

Frank F




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