[jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem

  • From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:04:25 +0100

If you start adding weight to the front of the aircraft you'll be going
round in circles. More weight means more lift required and a greater AoA for
any specific speed. Even if you just shift weight forward without increasing
it, all that happens is that you get a nose down pitch that will rob you of
lift and you will need more aft stick (and trim) to compensate.

Incorrect trim (and it has too much back trim by default) indicates an error
further back in the design process and, in this case, I suspect a problem
with weight and balance - probably an incorrectly set CoG position. It only
has to be a few inches out to make a huge difference to trim.

I have also got the aircraft to fly an approach below 100kts but I haven't
touched the trim or CoG settings (yet). The changes I have made have been
all in the .air file - adding the FS2004 control effectivity tables that
were missing. The engine parameters were also missing and I am playing with
those right now. There is too much residual thrust at idle speeds - it
should be down at 24% N1 similar to the Falcon and not up at 39%.

The trouble with .air file changes is that they don't take effect unless you
reboot FS so it's a messy business.

bones

-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 17 October 2005 17:55
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem


Amazed that tweaking the elevator trim effectiveness can have made such
a change!
Recently landed at EGNS 08, in really claggy weather. Using APPR, it
locked ont Localiser an Glideslope, holding the GS with the AP speed
down as low as 100 kias.
A significant difference was the amount of elevator trim used. Pre
tweeking it ran out of trim, at a digital trim readout of 81. Post tweek
and the highest trim figure seen was 31. It was also rock steady, as it
was after I'd disabled AP, at 5 DME.
 One thing that hasn't changed is the high AOA. It's quite nose up when
flown level at 130. Pre tweek it was reasonably flat on the GS. Now it's
a high AOA on the Glideslope.
I was about to try a repeat, with a high forward load. Unfortunately I
can't. I can't get FS9 to run. Part way through the bootup I get a 98
deg reading displayed in the GF MCP Heading window, followed, shortly,
by a phone home and out. I've rebooted the PC and it went almost to the
end of bootup, then quit. At that point I got a message saying FS9 was
unlikely to run, with my present Raedeon 7000 drivers. Now the Radeon
only drives the second monitor, the one that just displays the
instrument panel. Just downloaded latest drivers. May be gone for some time.

Gerry Winskill

Bones wrote:

>Same as I get and it's too high. That is still quite a bit of thrust
>and it could do with being at least 5% lower. I'll have to play with
>the .air engine values. I could alter the aircraft.cfg figures but if
>the values are also in the .air file it can sometimes reset the
>aircraft.cfg figures next time you boot FS up..
>
>bones
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>Sent: 17 October 2005 15:37
>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>
>
>The Fan Speed falls to 39%, with throttles registered as fully closed.
>
>Gerry Winskill
>
>Bones wrote:
>
>
>
>>When you say you turned the IAS to zero on the AP and saw the throttle
>>close can you be more explicit? The throttle levers may well go down
>>to zero but what N1, N2 and EPR values do you get? The throttle lever
>>position isn't a guarantee that the engines have completely spooled
>>down.
>>
>>bones
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>>Sent: 17 October 2005 15:07
>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>
>>
>>Thanks for the data. I've not tried since increasing the flap drag. I
>>wonder if the throttoe problem is associated with the AP, in the panel
>>you are using. I've just turned the AP's IAS down to zero and the
>>throttle definitely closed on this one. Confirmed because I made a
>>throttle % open gauge and that goes to zero. Iput it in so that I can
>>pick the correct throttle opening, on final, after disengaginp AP and
>>slowing to landing speed. The panel I'm using is for the 550 but is
>>quite similar to that shown on your website. I can't recall the file
>>name but it should be reachable via the into to the panel.cfg file:
>>
>>// This Panel.cfg file created by FS Panel Studio -
>>http://www.fspanelstudio.com // Built Saturday, December 27, 2003 at
>>18:26 FSPS Build:8294
>>
>>Gerry Winskill
>>
>>
>>Bones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't have any values for the CJ2 here and it could easily have
>>>different flap settings to the CJ1. The existing aircraft.cfg values
>>>are 0, 15 and 45 as you note and would seem to follow the current
>>>trend on some aircraft of absolute minimum flap settings (up, take
>>>off and land).
>>>
>>>The CJ1 I've had the pleasure to fly in is different and it has flap
>>>values of 0, 15, 35 and 50. Here are the book figures:
>>>
>>>T/0 Weight    15 deg Flap Setting   0 deg Flap Setting
>>>               V1  Vr  V2            V1  Vr  V2
>>>10600           107 107 111           113 113 119
>>>10000           102 103 108           109 109 115
>>>9500             98 100 105           105 105 113
>>>9000             97  97 103           102 102 110
>>>8500             97  97 103            98  98 107
>>>8000             97  97 104            98  98 107
>>>7000             97  98 106            98  98 109
>>>
>>>Stall Speeds
>>>
>>>Zero Angle of Bank, Landing Gear UP or Down, KCAS
>>>            Flap Position
>>>Weight     Land   15deg    UP
>>>10600       86      91     98
>>>10000       83      89     95
>>>9500        81      87     93
>>>9000        79      85     91
>>>8500        77      82     88
>>>8000        75      80     86
>>>7500        73      78     83
>>>7000        70      75     80
>>>
>>>Take-Off 0 and 15 degs flaps
>>>Landing Approach 15 degrees
>>>Full Flaps Land 35 degrees
>>>On Landing Flaps 50 degrees...used to help braking
>>>
>>>Note that 50 flap is only used as an after landing speed brake so we
>>>really only need 0, 15 and 35 in FS. However that is for the CJ1 and
>>>as there are so many versions of the Citation out now (which I have
>>>totally lost track
>>>of) it could well be that other versions have different flap
>>>settings. The Citation X is quite a different beast to the little
>>>CJ1!
>>>
>>>Also note that in the CJ1 figures above the Max Landing Weight is
>>>just 10600lb whilst the CJ2 is up at 15200lb. I would therefore
>>>expect the speeds to be a touch higher. For the CJ1 a rotate speed of
>>>about 105/115kts seems average and an approach speed of 106kts at max
>>>weight looks good (as Va = Vs x 1.23). I'll hunt around and see if I
>>>can find the CJ2 figures but expect them to be a touch higher than
>>>these.
>>>
>>>You can easily alter the aircraft.cfg values if you wish. As a
>>>reminder put the original values in the comment section so you
>>>remember them - they can go anywhere after the // symbols. Just out
>>>of interest did it say which variant of Citation the panel was for?
>>>
>>>bones
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>Sent: 17 October 2005 12:29
>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>
>>>
>>>Bones
>>>
>>>I was trying to find out what flap settings exist on the real-world
>>>Citation.  If there are 4 (0, 5, 15, 35), as the panel I am now using
>>>would seem to suggest, can I modify the current entry in aircraft.cfg
>>>-
>>>
>>>[Flaps.0]
>>>type             = 1          // 1 - tail, 2 - lead
>>>span-outboard    = 0.8        // 0.0 .. 1.0
>>>extending-time   = 5          // seconds
>>>system_type      = 0
>>>flaps-position.0 = 0          // degrees
>>>flaps-position.1 = 15          // degrees
>>>flaps-position.2 = 45         // degrees
>>>damaging-speed   = 250        // KIAS
>>>blowout-speed    = 300        // KIAS
>>>
>>>by inserting an additional line for flaps 5, and amending flaps 45 to
>>>flaps 35?  Or is such tinkering another minefield .... ?
>>>
>>>Mike L
>>>
>>>Bones wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The problem with designing a flap gauge is that you have to specify
>>>>the number of indents. No problem if it matches the aircraft's cfg
>>>>file but it produces oddities when the aircraft has different
>>>>settings. What I think happens is that the aircraft.cfg values are
>>>>read by FS. In this case you will have one redundant flap position
>>>>which you might reasonably assume comes at the end of flap
>>>>selection. This sometimes isn't the case so it may be best to check
>>>>visually..
>>>>
>>>>I had this situation on another aircraft when trying to adapt a non
>>>>standard panel. Flaps 1 worked OK, Flaps 2 did nothing, Flaps 3 and
>>>>4 worked fine. I just had to remember that I had to press the button
>>>>twice for second stage flaps.
>>>>
>>>>When a mismatch like this happens you can easily change the
>>>>aircraft.cfg to get flap selection to match the lever but this is
>>>>usually incorrect. It's better to get the flap lever to match the
>>>>aircraft but this is not an option on old GAU files and a tad messy
>>>>with XML.
>>>>
>>>>bones
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>>Sent: 16 October 2005 21:51
>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have installed a different panel for the Citation (2k4citxp.zip
>>>>from
>>>>Avsim) which looks a bit less of a jumble and seems to work OK with
>>>>FS2002.  No problems with APPR_HOLD or autothrottle.  It does appear
>>>>a tad blurry mind you ... not just my eyesight either.
>>>>
>>>>I notice that it shows 4 flap settings (0, 5, 15, 35), although
>>>>aircraft.cfg has only 3 settings (0, 15, 45).  What should it be?
>>>>
>>>>Mike L
>>>>
>>>>Bones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What a strange panel.
>>>>>
>>>>>I remember it now, one of many I've tried and dumped in the past.
>>>>>This one proves that if you have a very good panel for an aircraft
>>>>>you think the aircraft itself flies nicely and if you have a bad
>>>>>panel the aircraft is rubbish. I had no problems with the Citation
>>>>>at all until I attached this panel to it. I've flown it around for
>>>>>a couple of hours now and didn't enjoy much of it at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>The panel itself is a strange mixture of good and bad. It's got a
>>>>>lot of GAU files but there are several XML's in there too. What I
>>>>>don't understand is that one of the XML CAB files it uses has 84
>>>>>switches in it (including all the autopilot functions) but he's
>>>>>only borrowing two switches from this file and ignoring the rest.
>>>>>The autopilot switches he has chosen are separate GAU files and are
>>>>>not quite standard - they do slightly odd things.
>>>>>
>>>>>The APPR button worked for me, both on the GF unit and selecting it
>>>>>on the aircraft panel. The Speed button seems OK'ish too but it's a
>>>>>cobbled thing - it acts as both AP_AUTOTHROTTLE engage and
>>>>>AP_IAS_HOLD in one unit. No separate Autothrottle arming switch.
>>>>>Bad news is that it sometimes doesn't disengage when you deselect
>>>>>it and it's usually too late when you find this out.
>>>>>
>>>>>Other oddities are the GPU/APU as the aircraft is BAT start or GPU
>>>>>only. In fact you can start this aircraft without using the APU at
>>>>>all so it's only there for show. Bottom left switches work OK but
>>>>>the labels are very poor on the bottom row.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's a very messy layout which leaves you hunting all over the
>>>>>place for familiar switches and dials. Some dials (like RAD ALT and
>>>>>ELEV
>>>>>TRIM) are huge whilst other essential instruments are far too small
>>>>>to be read easily. Some dials are quite sophisticated, like the
>>>>>standby horizon and other border on the crude - the ALT SEL thing on
>>>>>the panel looks like a rubber grommet to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Flying tests proved something of a trial as I was trying to
>>>>>understand aircraft responses as well as hunt around this panel for
>>>>>data. I found faults with both the aircraft and the panel though.
>>>>>Aircraft first...
>>>>>
>>>>>This isn't a jumbo - it's a very nippy little jet - so you have to
>>>>>revise your thinking about climbout procedures. Set about +60 trim
>>>>>and apply full throttle. When you hit 100kts pull the nose up to 25
>>>>>degrees on the horizon (I can tell you this doesn't feel natural as
>>>>>you think you will stall but PULL THAT STICK BACK!). Get the gear
>>>>>up (don't use flaps) and trim for 25 degrees. At this pitch the
>>>>>aircraft will settle into an 1800fpm climb at around 150kts. Keep
>>>>>checking the nose and don't let it drop until you have the AP set
>>>>>up and on. Don't forget that the C550 doesn't have any slats or
>>>>>other fancy lift devices that add both lift AND drag to the bigger
>>>>>jets so it is going to take off like a scalded cat. You have to
>>>>>contain this.
>>>>>
>>>>>Round for the first ILS and the APPR mode captured the ILS first
>>>>>time. The approach seemed normal until about 4nm out and then the
>>>>>aircraft just dropped off the glideslope and started a rapid sink
>>>>>earthwards. This was at 120kts so it was well above stall so I
>>>>>climbed away for some handling. In manual flight it would happily
>>>>>fly round at 100kts flaps up without batting an eyelid and a little
>>>>>bit slower with flaps down. Get below these speeds though and the
>>>>>drag rises rapidly - if you check a slight loss of height by
>>>>>pulling the stick back even very slightly the speed winds off very
>>>>>fast indeed. I flew 100kt circuits without any problem at all so I
>>>>>tried a second ILS. Again the thing was fine at more than 120kts
>>>>>but as soon as I brought it even one knot lower it quit the
>>>>>glideslope capture. I've seen other aircraft do this too so I'm not
>>>>>sure what is going on. I'll try the ILS on the normal panel I use
>>>>>and see if it is any different. I could be panel related or it may
>>>>>be a drag/autothrottle mismatch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just after that it locked up my GF_MCP readouts totally - although
>>>>>the dials still worked.
>>>>>
>>>>>Differential roll I have sorted out. The aircraft still has an
>>>>>FS2002 .air file and it's missing quite few entries for FS2004. As
>>>>>soon as I entered values for tables 342 and 518 it started to
>>>>>behave properly. I'll do the same for elevator and rudder next.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I won't go on any more as I'll just rip the panel to
>>>>>pieces and it doesn't really deserve it. Some bits are very good
>>>>>but they are spoiled by tacky, mickey mouse dials alongside. The
>>>>>engine gauges are good (a pity you can see the sky behind them as
>>>>>he hasn't quite got the fit right) as are the annunciator lights
>>>>>above. The main EHSI is too small, too cluttered and very bad to
>>>>>read. The autopilot switches are all over the place (the original
>>>>>isn't too good either but it's not THAT bad). A good rebuild might
>>>>>see it much improved but that would be a reasonably long job.
>>>>>
>>>>>I just tried an ILS with a second panel and the same drop below the
>>>>>ILS happened when speed got below 121 kts so it must be an
>>>>>automatic decouple for some reason. It's usual for this to happen
>>>>>near the stall but this is excessive for this aircraft. Daft thing
>>>>>is that you can switch off the autopilot and fly quite happily
>>>>>manually for the rest of the approach..
>>>>>
>>>>>Must investigate further.
>>>>>
>>>>>bones
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>>>Sent: 15 October 2005 16:57
>>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for the offer, John.  Remember that I use FS2002 so it could
>>>>>be that the panel (cessna_citation_ii_v2.zip from Avsim) - which is
>>>>>listed for FS2004 - won't work properly with FS2002.  Having said
>>>>>that, the aircraft itself is listed as FS2004 but it seems fine in
>>>>>FS2002.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike L
>>>>>
>>>>>Bones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Give me the name of this panel and I'll download it and have a
>>>>>>hunt around. If the autopilot is an XML file I should be able to
>>>>>>track down why the APPR button isn't working. OTOH if it's and old
>>>>>>GAU file then that's beyond my abilities as I have no C++ skills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've built an autopilot for the Aztec and the code is very simple.
>>>>>>An APPR button isn't very hard to do so I could probably add this
>>>>>>to the Citation if the original is faulty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>bones
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>>>>Sent: 15 October 2005 12:48
>>>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>bones
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for this info, and your other reply on gauge design.  I
>>>>>>have no desire to enter a minefield ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I may try a different panel with the Citation and see if I can get
>>>>>>APPR_HOLD to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Think I've got the AP autothrottle and IAS hold sussed now ... <g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You are walking into a minefield here Mike so it may be best to
>>>>>>>leave well alone. I don't know anything about the panel you got
>>>>>>>for the C550 but it would need a much closer look at the gauges
>>>>>>>supplied to see what was included in the package and what was
>>>>>>>not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The gauge line you quote doesn't mean a lot to me as I don't have
>>>>>>>a fsd_generic.ap.appr.gau (it could be a CAB file too). It
>>>>>>>becomes tricky because just because the line is in the panel.cfg
>>>>>>>file it doesn't automatically mean the gauge itself is in your
>>>>>>>gauges folder. Although likely I can't even say this is an APPR
>>>>>>>hold function either. It's unusual if it is because ALL the
>>>>>>>autopilot functions are normally contained in a single autopilot
>>>>>>>gauge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The FS command AP_IAS_HOLD is a different beast to
>>>>>>>AP_AUTOTHROTTLE. If you set a P8 button for the latter then
>>>>>>>(assuming the aircraft is fitted with an AP and AT in the
>>>>>>>aircraft.cfg file) you have access to speed control - it is,
>>>>>>>effectively, the Autothrottle Arm function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The AP_IAS_HOLD function is the same as the IAS button on the
>>>>>>>autopilot panel on most aircraft. This is an engage/disengage
>>>>>>>button but it has no effect if the Autothrottle isn't armed in
>>>>>>>the first place. You don't need to allocate this button to a P8
>>>>>>>switch because it should already be programmed into the HOLD
>>>>>>>button below the IAS/Mach rotary switch on your MCP. It's the
>>>>>>>same as the NAV and HDG hold buttons alongside - press to engage
>>>>>>>or disengage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, what you should really have is the AP_IAS_HOLD command set to
>>>>>>>the HOLD button below the IAS/Mach panel on the MCP. On the P8
>>>>>>>you allocate a button for the AP_AUTOTHROTTLE function. When
>>>>>>>flying the aircraft you hit the P8 to arm the autothrottle, dial
>>>>>>>in a speed you want and then press the HOLD button to engage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can mostly ignore the reference speeds in the aircraft.cfg as
>>>>>>>they are only used in one of the FS menus - I think Weight and
>>>>>>>Balance. They have absolutely no effect on the sim itself. The
>>>>>>>speeds are actually the wrong way round but they are correct -
>>>>>>>the Citation has a very low stall speed. It was intentionally
>>>>>>>designed for slow flight as it gave the aircraft the ability to
>>>>>>>operate out of very short strips - something no other jet is
>>>>>>>capable of. It was an impressive feat by Cessna as the aircraft
>>>>>>>doesn't have any complex wing devices at all, but there again it
>>>>>>>is quite a light aircraft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What is good about the Citation is that at 100kts the aircraft
>>>>>>>still has excellent roll rate. It is a very nice aircraft indeed
>>>>>>>for a pilot and doesn't really deserve its "toy jet" title from
>>>>>>>the Lear/Falcon brigade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>bones
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>>>>>Lucas
>>>>>>>Sent: 14 October 2005 19:29
>>>>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>bones
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm afraid I don't know what it is I'm looking for in the panel
>>>>>>>and aircraft.cfg files ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Panel.cfg contains the line -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>gauge37=fsd_generic.ap.appr,  213,517,20,23
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>which suggests to me that there should be a working APPR_HOLD
>>>>>>>function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As regards the GoFlight autothrottle, I have disabled the "arm
>>>>>>>when CMD is activated" option.  But I cannot get the IAS/Mach
>>>>>>>hold to work
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from a P8 button.  The appropriate P8 light comes on but it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>doesn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>activate the IAS/Mach hold (yes, I have designated the correct
>>>>>>>function in GF config).  I can only get IAS/Mach hold to work
>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>Ctrl+R.  Any ideas??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Going back to the Cessna Citation specifically, I found the
>>>>>>>following in aircraft.cfg -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[Reference Speeds]
>>>>>>>flaps_up_stall_speed=77.0      //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>>>>full_flaps_stall_speed=80.0    //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>>>>cruise_speed=262.0              //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>>>>max_indicated_speed=350.453125
>>>>>>>max_mach=0.75
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Surely flaps up stall speed should be higher than full flaps
>>>>>>>stall speed?? - and I would have expected both to be 100+ kts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Confused.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>First thing to suspect is the panel because it suggests the
>>>>>>>>autopilot gauge it uses may not be working properly. If it works
>>>>>>>>in other aircraft but not the C550 then it may be the
>>>>>>>>interaction between the panel and the aircraft.cfg file. In my
>>>>>>>>copy both the autopilot and autothrottle are flagged as
>>>>>>>>available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Check the MCP options in the GF Module. You should have two
>>>>>>>>radio buttons which enable/disable autothrottle with AP
>>>>>>>>activation. I don't actually use this myself as there are times
>>>>>>>>when I want to keep AT active when flying manually and so I have
>>>>>>>>one of the T8 switches set for AT engage/disengage. This works
>>>>>>>>perfectly well. The command you want is called AP_AUTOTHROTTLE.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>bones
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>>>>>>Lucas
>>>>>>>>Sent: 14 October 2005 16:09
>>>>>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For one sector of my FPI session on Wed evening I flew the
>>>>>>>>Cessna Citation by VENEAVIONES in JHB livery, with panel by
>>>>>>>>Brian Williams. Unfortunately, I discovered that APPR HOLD
>>>>>>>>didn't work (at EGTE). Can someone with more expertise than me
>>>>>>>>in this area tell me if this is a problem somewhere in one of
>>>>>>>>the config files (aircraft.cfg or
>>>>>>>>panel.cfg?) that can be easily fixed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Still coming to terms with the new GoFlight autopilot module, in
>>>>>>>>particular the apparent lack of an autothrottle arm switch.
>>>>>>>>Only an IAS/Mach Hold and although I have configured one of my
>>>>>>>>P8 buttons as A/Thr Arm it doesn't seem to activate and I have
>>>>>>>>to resort to Ctr+R
>>>>>>>>- which rather defeats the purpose of this all-singing,
>>>>>>>>all-dancing autopilot module (I can even get BBC2 on it ....
>>>>>>>><g>)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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