[jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem

  • From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:30:18 +0100

Initial check of the .air file shows nothing odd about it but I need to look
at it more closely in AirEd.

bones

-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 15 October 2005 21:55
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem


Thanks, just had a look.
The panel I've been using seems the closest but is the least legible.
Must start modifying one of the others.
'Ere we go again. I may be gone for some time.

Gerry Winskill


Bones wrote:

>Yep - all the pictures are on the Photography page.
>
>bones
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>Sent: 15 October 2005 19:35
>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>
>
>Is there a shot on your website, of the 550 in which you had a couple
>of jaunts? Grinds teeth loudly.
>
>Gerry Winskill
>
>Bones wrote:
>
>
>
>>It sounds almost as if you are talking about a totally different
>>aircraft to the one I fly! The C550 flown manually is a real softy and
>>I can fly visual circuits in it without any problem. As mentioned on
>>the web page I did increase aileron authority a bit because roll rate
>>was awful but I have otherwise made no tweaks.
>>
>>The other comments you make seem more related to the autopilot
>>functions but I will test my version again to make sure. I've not had
>>any problems so far capturing speed or the glidepath.
>>
>>I might just delve into the .air file because I agree that rolling
>>left seems faster than rolling right. This may be due to incorrect
>>values for the aileron ratios.
>>
>>bones
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>>Sent: 15 October 2005 17:52
>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>
>>
>>I've downloaded tis aircraft, used the FS Panel Studio panel ant tried
>>a flight. Only two comments. I think it may be a bit overpowered,
>>since AutoThrottle couldn't reduce sufficiently quickly to stop it
>>exceeding 240 kias, in the initial climb. Approaching IOM, it captured
>>the Localiser very efficiently, usin APPR.  From then on it was
>>downhill. When it caught the Localiser, still below the Glideslope,
>>and with Alt Hold still selected, it started to descend, rapidly, from
>>the setting of 2500'. It's not the only a/c to do this. No idea why.
>>Things then got worse. I tried to fly the ILS manually. Maintaining GS
>>was no problem. The Localiser was a different matter, since at what I
>>thought was a high finals speed of 120 kias, any turn to the right
>>needed full right ailerond AND full right rudder pedal. Once the speed
>>was taken to about 130, full aileron authority returned though, unlike
>>the real aircraft, it still needed full deflection to initiate turns.
>>
>>Gerry Winskill
>>
>>gwinsk@xxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>Bones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Give me the name of this panel and I'll download it and have a hunt
>>>around. If the autopilot is an XML file I should be able to track
>>>down why the APPR button isn't working. OTOH if it's and old GAU file
>>>then that's beyond my abilities as I have no C++ skills.
>>>
>>>I've built an autopilot for the Aztec and the code is very simple. An
>>>APPR button isn't very hard to do so I could probably add this to the
>>>Citation if the original is faulty.
>>>
>>>bones
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>Sent: 15 October 2005 12:48
>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>
>>>
>>>bones
>>>
>>>Thanks for this info, and your other reply on gauge design.  I have
>>>no desire to enter a minefield ....
>>>
>>>I may try a different panel with the Citation and see if I can get
>>>APPR_HOLD to work.
>>>
>>>Think I've got the AP autothrottle and IAS hold sussed now ... <g>
>>>
>>>Mike L
>>>
>>>Bones wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are walking into a minefield here Mike so it may be best to
>>>>leave well alone. I don't know anything about the panel you got for
>>>>the C550 but it would need a much closer look at the gauges supplied
>>>>to see what was included in the package and what was not.
>>>>
>>>>The gauge line you quote doesn't mean a lot to me as I don't have a
>>>>fsd_generic.ap.appr.gau (it could be a CAB file too). It becomes
>>>>tricky because just because the line is in the panel.cfg file it
>>>>doesn't automatically mean the gauge itself is in your gauges
>>>>folder. Although likely I can't even say this is an APPR hold
>>>>function either. It's unusual if it is because ALL the autopilot
>>>>functions are normally contained in a single autopilot gauge.
>>>>
>>>>The FS command AP_IAS_HOLD is a different beast to AP_AUTOTHROTTLE.
>>>>If you set a P8 button for the latter then (assuming the aircraft is
>>>>fitted with an AP and AT in the aircraft.cfg file) you have access
>>>>to speed control - it is, effectively, the Autothrottle Arm
>>>>function.
>>>>
>>>>The AP_IAS_HOLD function is the same as the IAS button on the
>>>>autopilot panel on most aircraft. This is an engage/disengage button
>>>>but it has no effect if the Autothrottle isn't armed in the first
>>>>place. You don't need to allocate this button to a P8 switch because
>>>>it should already be programmed into the HOLD button below the
>>>>IAS/Mach rotary switch on your MCP. It's the same as the NAV and HDG
>>>>hold buttons alongside - press to engage or disengage.
>>>>
>>>>So, what you should really have is the AP_IAS_HOLD command set to
>>>>the HOLD button below the IAS/Mach panel on the MCP. On the P8 you
>>>>allocate a button for the AP_AUTOTHROTTLE function. When flying the
>>>>aircraft you hit the P8 to arm the autothrottle, dial in a speed you
>>>>want and then press the HOLD button to engage.
>>>>
>>>>You can mostly ignore the reference speeds in the aircraft.cfg as
>>>>they are only used in one of the FS menus - I think Weight and
>>>>Balance. They have absolutely no effect on the sim itself. The
>>>>speeds are actually the wrong way round but they are correct - the
>>>>Citation has a very low stall speed. It was intentionally designed
>>>>for slow flight as it gave the aircraft the ability to operate out
>>>>of very short strips - something no other jet is capable of. It was
>>>>an impressive feat by Cessna as the aircraft doesn't have any
>>>>complex wing devices at all, but there again it is quite a light
>>>>aircraft.
>>>>
>>>>What is good about the Citation is that at 100kts the aircraft still
>>>>has excellent roll rate. It is a very nice aircraft indeed for a
>>>>pilot and doesn't really deserve its "toy jet" title from the
>>>>Lear/Falcon brigade.
>>>>
>>>>bones
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>>Sent: 14 October 2005 19:29
>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>bones
>>>>
>>>>I'm afraid I don't know what it is I'm looking for in the panel and
>>>>aircraft.cfg files ...
>>>>
>>>>Panel.cfg contains the line -
>>>>
>>>>gauge37=fsd_generic.ap.appr,  213,517,20,23
>>>>
>>>>which suggests to me that there should be a working APPR_HOLD
>>>>function.
>>>>
>>>>As regards the GoFlight autothrottle, I have disabled the "arm when
>>>>CMD is activated" option.  But I cannot get the IAS/Mach hold to
>>>>work
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>from a P8 button.  The appropriate P8 light comes on but it doesn't
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>activate the IAS/Mach hold (yes, I have designated the correct
>>>>function in GF config).  I can only get IAS/Mach hold to work using
>>>>Ctrl+R.  Any ideas??
>>>>
>>>>Going back to the Cessna Citation specifically, I found the
>>>>following in aircraft.cfg -
>>>>
>>>>[Reference Speeds]
>>>>flaps_up_stall_speed=77.0      //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>full_flaps_stall_speed=80.0    //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>cruise_speed=262.0              //Knots True (KTAS)
>>>>max_indicated_speed=350.453125
>>>>max_mach=0.75
>>>>
>>>>Surely flaps up stall speed should be higher than full flaps stall
>>>>speed?? - and I would have expected both to be 100+ kts.
>>>>
>>>>Confused.
>>>>
>>>>Mike L
>>>>
>>>>Bones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>First thing to suspect is the panel because it suggests the
>>>>>autopilot gauge it uses may not be working properly. If it works in
>>>>>other aircraft but not the C550 then it may be the interaction
>>>>>between the panel and the aircraft.cfg file. In my copy both the
>>>>>autopilot and autothrottle are flagged as available.
>>>>>
>>>>>Check the MCP options in the GF Module. You should have two radio
>>>>>buttons which enable/disable autothrottle with AP activation. I
>>>>>don't actually use this myself as there are times when I want to
>>>>>keep AT active when flying manually and so I have one of the T8
>>>>>switches set for AT engage/disengage. This works perfectly well.
>>>>>The command you want is called AP_AUTOTHROTTLE.
>>>>>
>>>>>bones
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Lucas
>>>>>Sent: 14 October 2005 16:09
>>>>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Autopilot APPR HOLD problem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>For one sector of my FPI session on Wed evening I flew the Cessna
>>>>>Citation by VENEAVIONES in JHB livery, with panel by Brian
>>>>>Williams. Unfortunately, I discovered that APPR HOLD didn't work
>>>>>(at EGTE). Can someone with more expertise than me in this area
>>>>>tell me if this is a problem somewhere in one of the config files
>>>>>(aircraft.cfg or
>>>>>panel.cfg?) that can be easily fixed?
>>>>>
>>>>>Still coming to terms with the new GoFlight autopilot module, in
>>>>>particular the apparent lack of an autothrottle arm switch.  Only
>>>>>an IAS/Mach Hold and although I have configured one of my P8
>>>>>buttons as A/Thr Arm it doesn't seem to activate and I have to
>>>>>resort to Ctr+R
>>>>>- which rather defeats the purpose of this all-singing, all-dancing
>>>>>autopilot module (I can even get BBC2 on it .... <g>)
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike L
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Other related posts: