I just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I often navigate through Web pages at work with complicated tables. It is easier to see all the data for one row of the table on one line, since I use a Braille display and can just skim all the way across the line. Some of those tables have financial data, and it is better to see the data all lined up. In this I mean that I can look at a single row of the table on one line, then move up a row, and see what the previous quarter's data looked like. Move down, and I'll see all of the data for the next quarter. Perhaps with speech it's less important, but when reading it in Braille, I like to see it in the same way it'd be laid out for someone sighted. -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:34 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout Jerry, I sort of figured that's what it meant; my question, in case it isn't clear how elementary it is, is ththis: When would such a change be helpful to me? I honestly don't know its purpose. Please, don't infer from this question some sort of thing like that I'm being sarcastic and saying "why the hell would anyone want to use this?" People on this list sometimes see challenge where no challenge is meant, and start saying, Peace, brother, there's a million ways to do something in Windows/Jaws or whatever. Honestly, that isn't where I'm coming from. I really want to know why a person might want to use this, okay? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "G.W. Cox" <gwcox2@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout This is what FS says. As for why you want screen layout, that is your call. The Document Presentation Mode combo box allows you to change how JAWS structures HTML pages in the virtual buffer. If you select "Simple Layout," links, form fields, buttons, and other controls on the page are each displayed on a separate line. This is the default layout, and the behavior should be familiar to users of JAWS 6.20 and earlier. If you select "Screen Layout," HTML pages are rendered in the virtual buffer in a way that is more similar to what a sighted user sees on the screen. If links, form fields, buttons, or other controls visually appear on the same line, they also appear on the same line in the virtual buffer. In addition, all items in a single table row are displayed on the same line. Each cell in the table is separated by a vertical bar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout Hi, I figured it could be done permanently through the Configuration Manager, which thanks for confirming. But what considerations would dictate making this a permanent setting? In fact, what sort of specific Web site difficulty would suggest doing this even temporarily? any ordinary table? Or a site whose pages were all full of tables? Or a general expectation that, whenever you came upon a table, at any URL, you'd always want it to read this way? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Lange" <trlange@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout Hi, Yes, this change can be set up on the fly through the verbosity dialog, and, if you want that change to be permanent, you do it through configuration manager. To do that, from any Internet Explorer window, press insert+f6 to bring up the IE configuration. Then, do an alt+s to bring up the "Set Options" menu. Arrow down to HTML options and press Enter. This is a multi-page dialog. Go into the Misc tab and it's the first combo box you'll see. Set it accordingly, click OK or just whack Enter and you're in business. Just to clarify a bit, to my knowledge, these presentation options have nothing to do with tables in Word. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout > Probably the Insert V on-the-fly Jaws menu you can call up while Web > surfing, is what I'm assuming. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:00 AM > Subject: RE: screen vs simple layout > > > What menu are you guys talking about? Anything that makes table > reading > easier, especially in word, is right down my alley. > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Yardbird > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:49 PM > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout > > > Tom, > > thanks. That's great. Even though I've learned a keyboard command > for > approximating this effect while reading a table (I think it's shift > insert > num pad 5), being able to set a table to display to Jaws this way will > be a > nice addition to that. The hardest thing for me about interpreting a > table > with jaws is trying to memorize everything as I go so that I can > imagine > the > table mentally as if I could still see it. This is a second tool for > simplifying that sometimes very daunting process. > > Thanks again. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Lange" <trlange@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: screen vs simple layout > > > Hi, > Let me see if I can explain this clearly. It has to do with the way > that > tables are presented to you on web pages. > > By default, JAWS 7 and 8 set the document presentation mode to simple > layout. Suppose you have a table with 3 columns and 3 rows. As you use > your > down arrow to read down the page and encounter this table, each cell > in > the > table would appear to be on a separate line. Thus each of the nine > table > cells would appear one after another in a vertical fashion, like this > > Table has 3 columns and 3 rows > Model > Description > Price > STD > JAWS for Windows Standard Edition > $995.00 > PRO > JAWS for Windows Professional Edition > $1185.00 > Table End > > > . Get the picture? > > Now, when you set document presentation mode to screen layout. > instead > of > encountering each cell as a separate line item, again using your down > arrow, > you'd find that each table row appears on its own line, and the > complete > row > would be read to you, as follows: > > Table has 3 columns and 3 rows > Model Description Price > STD | JAWS for Windows Standard Edition | $995.00 > PRO | JAWS For Windows Professional Edition | $1185.00 > Table End > > Hope this helps. > > Tom > > -- > JFW related links: > JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ > Scripting mailing list: > http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com > JFW List instructions: > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject > line. > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, > or > the > way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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