Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:40:43 -0800
Hi don,
I've read the what's new. Honest. I had my questions in spite of that. As
for highlighting, yes, it makes a difference to us. For a change, FS is
using "highlight" in the normal sense, meaning "selected." And you can be
sure that whatever we deliberately select from a full page of text or a Web
page or whatever really *is* highlighted as the evidence of what's been
selected. It happens that I can even see this, but it doesn't matter. It's
real, sort of, if you know what I mean.
So it's just that I wasn't prepared for FS to be using the idea of
highlighting normally for a change. In other contexts, they seem to use it
in novel ways. I don't even want to get my mind tangled up trying to figure
it out right now. Anyway, I'm just down to trying to learn if the change in
this option, if not others on the new version of the menu, is permanent and
global, as it would be if you could make it in Configuration Manager. I'm
still waiting to hear that confirmed.
Thanks very much.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
Hi Yardbird,
In my case, that new feature did not cause Word to crash when I pasted a
web page into a document, but it sure made a mess of things. That's what
sent me to the "What's New" section of the FS web site.
With regard to your second question, the difference between Copy Full
Web Page and Copy Full Web Page with Highlights, it actually makes no
difference to us, but it does show sighted people what is highlighted on the
web page, which may be useful if you are sending the web page to a sighted
person.
Here is the documentation I found in the "What's New" section:
HTML Formatting Retained when Selecting, Copying, and Pasting
JAWS 9.0 will now properly copy the contents of a Web page to the virtual
buffer, and retain all the HTML formatting and markup when pasting the
information
into an HTML formatted e-mail or Word document. This break through in
screen reading means that you can now copy and paste content and retain its
formatting,
colors, and active hyperlinks, while discarding any of the other JAWS
messages, such as the number of items in a list, and so on. What you paste
is essentially
the same rendering that a sighted user would see. Plus, you have the added
advantage of being able to use JAWS HTML commands to read and navigate the
Web
content when pasted into an e-mail message.
In addition, JAWS still provides a way to select copy and paste in the
traditional manner of stripping out the formatting if you choose. You will
find this
option to toggle in the new Adjust JAWS Option dialog box (INSERT+V). You
may also wish to take advantage of the personalize settings option
(INSERT+SHIFT+V)
feature in JAWS to set up certain behavior for specific Web sites while
leaving the default set with the new solution that includes all the
formatting. (end of quote from "What's New")
Now, here is the documentation on this option directly from the Virtual
Cursor Options section of the Tree View, which I got by pressing Insert v in
Internet Explorer, cursoring down to Virtual Cursor Options, then cursoring
right to this particular option and then Tabbing once to the "Read Only"
section:
This option controls whether or not JAWS will use the
Text Selection and Copy Commands from the Web
browser, e-mail software, or other owner of a virtual
document.
With the From Virtual Cursor setting, text is copied as
plain text without formatting, pictures, and HTML
attributes.
With the Full Content setting, the selection is copied
directly from the application, and may include pictures,
links and formatting.
With the Full Content Using Onscreen Highlight setting,
the text and elements you select are highlighted
onscreen. (end of documentation from Tree View in I.E.)
Hope this helps,
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
> Don,
>
> I, too, had read through the list of new features, and appreciated the
> potential usefulness of the new capability. But I didn't notice anything
> about it being the new default, for one thing. Secondly, I don't
> understand
> why choosing the "wrong" mode of copying should have crashed Word. In
> fact,
> isn't that one of the stated purposes of this new capability? To copy a
> Web page in all its details into a document or an email? I could swear
> that
> was the point of it. In any case, I'll experiment, but if that's actually
> become the default, I'll regret that. I actually don't think of wanting to
> copy a Web page in that way, myself, so I don't really feel that
> advantaged
> by the change. But that's just me. Maybe a lot of people want to send each
> other Web pages with all their graphical features and links and stuff.
> That's fine. No complaint. I just wish my own routine hadn't suddenly
> become
> a hassle for me.
>
> Now, let me look below. You say there are three options now. do you happen
> to understand what the difference is between copy full web page and copy
> full web page with highlights? Just curious.
>
> Also, I'm hoping desperately that I can go into Configuration Manager and
> reset the default to virtual cursor copy. Can I? Where would I look for
> this. In HTML options, probably?
>
> Thanks. Wow, this is sort of a relief, anyway. Again, why should it be
> crashing Word if that's what it was supposed to be for? That puzzles me.
>
> I
>
> pagees jjuexperiement,,efatul1defaultdefatul!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
>
>
> Hi again,
>
> Yes, I did have some of those problems, particularly with Copying and
> Pasting from a web page into a Word document. Then, I looked at the
> "What's
> New" section on the FS site and found the solution.
>
> In JAWS 9.0, when you are in Internet Explorer, you have the option to
> Copy
> & Paste a web page exactly as it appears to a sighted person, including
> usable links & pictures, etc. or you can Copy & Paste the web page just as
> text, which is the way it was always Copied & Pasted in earlier versions
> of
> JAWS. To toggle this back & forth, open Internet Explorer & press Insert
> v,
> which now gives you a Tree View. Cursor down to Virtual Cursor Options
> open
> & cursor right. You will hear Select and Copy from Virtual Cursor or
> Select
> & Copy full content or Select & Copy full content using onscreen
> highlight;
> you can toggle among these 3 options by pressing the SpaceBar. Once you
> are
> on the option you want, Tab around to Execute & press the SpaceBar on the
> Execute button. Note: the option you want is Select and Copy from Virtual
> Cursor.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Don
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:55 PM
> Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
>
>
>> Don,
>>
>> yes. Let's say you're on a Web page. A normal Web page. The printer
>> friendly
>> version of a New York Times article at nytimes.com, for example. Nothing
>> unusual about the page itself.
>>
>> Now, sometimes I like to copy and paste such an article into an email, or
>> even into a Word document. I know other ways to send a URL or a Web page,
>> and I know how to save the page as a text file and then copy and paste
>> from
>> that new file, if I wish to. But never mind these options. I'm not
>> looking
>> for an alternative. I'm simply describing a function that doesn't work
>> correctly anymore.
>>
>> Okay. So I'm on the page. I press Control A to select all. I hear Jaws
>> report that so many characters have been selected, which is normal.
>> However,
>> and this may be a clue to anyone else who's partially sighted, as I am:
>> At
>> this point, the selected material always used to darken, which from
>> better-sighted days I remember was the visual clue to what material had
>> been
>> selected. Well, now the selected text doesn't change appearance. That
>> isn't
>> a complaint. It's a possible clue to eventual diagnosis by the pros.
>>
>> Okay. Then I press Control C. I hear Jaws report that I've copied the
>> material to the clipboard. Except for the lack of contrast change up to
>> that
>> point, it must sound as if everything's normal. However, interestingly,
>> it's
>> at this point, as I perform the copy keystroke, that the selected text
>> darkens. This is weird. Again, maybe a clue to a programmer type.
>>
>> Now, if I paste this material into an email I'm creating, it works,
>> although
>> with one odd glitch, which may be another clue about something: It
>> creates
>> so many blank lines above the first line of the text on the page that at
>> least the first screen of my new email is blank, and to see that the text
>> has been pasted, I have to arrow down quite a bit until I come to any of
>> it.
>>
>> Now, that's a bit odd, of course. But here's an even worse result. If I
>> paste the same thing into an open Word 2000 document,the Word doc remains
>> blank for a moment, and then Word crashes, providing a dialogue asking
>> whether I want to send a report, etc. Afterward, for several launches,
>> Word
>> asks questions about the normal.dot template, which I wasn't aware of
>> having
>> altered, or forbids me to exit Word without doing something to save a
>> version of that template, when I have no idea why it's giving me a hard
>> time. If I play tricks, can't even remember how I got out of this last
>> time,
>> it finally gives up and lets me exit in a normal way, but the whole
>> experience is crazy.
>>
>> And it is caused by my attempting to paste in a Web page I've copied to
>> clipboard, as I said. Something which has always been a perfectly normal
>> operation.
>>
>> I hope that's a good enough description. Has something like this happened
>> to
>> you? Or were you just curious?
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
>>
>>
>> Hi Yardbird,
>>
>> You wrote, in part:
>>
>> "IE 7 select all (control A)on a Web page for copying to clipboard
>> doesn't
>> work right" (end of quote)
>>
>> Could you please elaborate on this?
>>
>> Don
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
>>
>>
>>> It seems some users aren't experiencing many, or any, inconveniences
>>> with
>>> this release, but over the couple of days I've had it installed, I'm
>>> discovering quite an inventory of problems, which I'm compiling a list
>>> of
>>> so
>>> that I can report as much as possible to FS at the same time. Here are
>>> some
>>> examples, and I'd be curious to know if anyone else is having the same
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> IE 7 select all (control A)on a Web page for copying to clipboard
>>> doesn't
>>> work right, and if I don't play games like pressing Control C twice
>>> instead
>>> of once (learned by experimenting), then trying to paste into an open
>>> Word
>>> document crashes Word.
>>>
>>> In edit fields like the Save As dialogue in Word and the hotkey
>>> assignment
>>> in properties for a program icon, Jaws doesn't echo typing or speak when
>>> I
>>> use Say Line. Oddly, it does speak the autocomplete as it fills in the
>>> path
>>> and filename edit field in Save As, which of course gets ahead of what
>>> I'm
>>> trying to do, but it won't allow me to read what has been auto filled in
>>> and
>>> edit it. Nor to edit what I type in myself after selecting and deleting
>>> that
>>> stuff. Useless.
>>>
>>> When beginning to type a message in the message area of a new Outlook
>>> Express message, Jaws speaks whatever it accidentally is focused on,
>>> which
>>> is sometimes the From line of the headers, sometimes the To line, and so
>>> forth. Very quirky, although more annoying than disabling, unlike the
>>> above
>>> examples.
>>>
>>> And here's some unwelcome news to share. Scripts for AdAware and Spyware
>>> Blaster aren't working at all. I've explored both with the Jaws cursor,
>>> but
>>> can't make much sense of either, and that's okay. I've exited this
>>> version
>>> and launched Jaws 8 so I can get things done today. Now to alt tab
>>> around
>>> the task bar and see if Lavasoft finally finished downloading the latest
>>> AdAware update. Now and then the update downloads as quickly as it
>>> always
>>> has, but more often, it creeps along or just sticks for minutes at a
>>> time.
>>> No, I'm not having download issues otherwise. It's Lavasoft, not me.
>>>
>>> Okay, that's it so far. Going to write to FS and pretend to myself I'm
>>> taking part in the public Beta testing. After the final release.
>>> Whatever...
>>> <shrug>
>>>
>>> --
>>> JFW related links:
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>> --
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>>
>> --
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