Re: making folders in oe

  • From: James <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:17:15 -0400

I will take each of your points one by one, for the same of simplisity, and 
because your concerns are somewhat valid.
At 02:28 PM 01/07/2004, you wrote:
>I missed the original post to which you respond, and your message refers
>Alicia to the Outlook Express help files, which I have spent the past hour
>perusing.
>I assume Alicia is an expert jaws and computer user, since I am fairly savvy
>myself about using a computer, but finding the answers to the request she
>posed is very difficult for me, and frankly, I cannot answer her on how to
>do what she wants to do by using the OE help files.
>Maybe some one here can teach me on how to be an efficient and skilled RTFM
>user, since this would solve all of a person's problems if they only knew
>how to use the help files.
Being a skilled help file browser has nothing to do with whether or not you 
can find the information you're looking for. In fact, the two are not 
entirely related at all. All you need know is how to manipulate the 
built-in search feature in Windows Help--see below.

>Does all one have to know is that a help file exist?
Every program, or most programs, come with a help file, or some reference 
to web-based help systems, which are entirely JFW-friendly. The knowledge 
that a help file exists should be one of the first things that comes into 
your mind about a program... if there is no help available, then it's just 
poor marketting and support on behalf of the manufacturer... at which point 
you turn to the internet, and search engines.

>If it does exist, does this mean that a person should read the whole file?
While admitedly reading the whole file would be recommended, just like 
reading the whole manual on a new piece of hardware is highly recommended, 
it's not absolutely 100% necessary, so long as the file is organized in 
such a way that one can navigate to the information needed with a minimum 
of hair-pulling. again, I point to my reference to the built-in search 
feature. If this isn't the case, then again, poor marketting and support on 
the part of the manufacturer. See above.


>Does this presuppose that the person seeking information even knows what to
>look for in a help file?
The person knows what they want to do with that program, so it would just 
be common sense that they would be looking for some variation of wording 
used to indicate a section describing how to do what they want the program 
to do. If they can't find it in the help file, it probably isn't in the 
program's capabilities. With respect to Outlook Express, message filtering 
is built-in, so there *will* be mention of how to do it in the help file. 
If not, again, internet search engine.

>Does this mean that a person knows what  exact word to type into the search
>feature of a help file is?
I point again to your original reply, stemming from a thread about message 
filtering. She already knows what she wants to look for. Search features 
are there to pull up variations of that which she tell sit to look for. So, 
just by knowing what she wants to do, she knows generally what to type in 
the search field. Often times Windows will match on the first few letters 
of a search query, meaning you may not even need to type the entire phrase 
or partial phrase.

>While we are directed to respond to this person off list, what is this
>person's email address?
>Had I known you missed the original post, which *has* the person's 
>original email address, I could have sent you a copy of it off-list, or 
>simply extracted the email address from it, and relayed it to you. Taking 
>it to this level instead, however, still doesn't get you that information, 
>as instead of answering your question pertaining to her email address, I'm 
>answering a post that in its own right should have been directed to me 
>off-list. I'm keeping it on the list now, however, as everyone deserves to 
>know why it was that I replied as I did.

>James, please give us a break here.  The RTFM mentality is not very helpful,
>since when one wishes to find a
>piece of specific information regarding the interaction of a screen reader
>and a particular computer program will be hindered if they must firsst know
>the manual or help file before making an inquiry.
>At no point did I, or anyone, imply or directly say you needed to know the 
>help file before asking your question. No one's an expert, and I 
>completely understand that. What I did say, and I quote, this topic has 
>nothing to do as far as work-arounds with JFW. Now, had she asked, say, if 
>there was a shortcut implemented in JFW specifically for this, then there 
>would have been no problem. Of course my answer would have been "no", 
>which would have likely prompted this question anyway, but regardless she 
>had instead asked a specific Outlook express-related question, and one 
>which is accessible in OE's documentation, or via a search engine, or even 
>via a more general mailing list. the RTFM attitude you speak of is not in 
>question here. However, the mentality that questions of that nature are 
>unwelcomed on this list is very much in question. I understand it's twice 
>as hard to find something as a blind/visually impaired person than it is 
>as a sighted person. Lord knows I've had my share of problems. I disagree 
>with the idea, however, that the help file should be the only thing you 
>turn to with questions. It should, however, be one of the first things you 
>turn to with non-JFW related questions, such as how OE handles the setting 
>up and modification of message filters, which is, by what I gathered from 
>her post, what the original author was looking for. At the worse possible 
>situation, look for someone's email address in a message who you know, or 
>think, uses Outlook or Outlook Express, and email your question to them 
>off-list. If you're not sure, look in the message information showed to 
>you before the actual message text, around the same general area as the 
>from, to, and subject lines. One of the lines there will say the program 
>the person is using to send that email. for instance, were you to scan 
>those lines on this particular message, you would see that I'm using 
>eudora 6.1.1 as my email client. Using that information, you could easily 
>drop them a quick email asking if they know.

Of course, there is the borderline of off-topic and on-topic messages, some 
of which I let slide by because they are just that... borderline. If you're 
unsure what is or isn't on-topic, email me off-list. I'm not here to 
dictate what you can and can't write. As far as I know everyone on the list 
has the right to free speech. However being the list administrator I have 
the right to decide where the line gets drawn with regards what does, and 
doesn't constitute a JFW-specific question. It might be just how it was 
worded, it might even be the fact that you aren't sure one way or the other 
regardless to how it's worded. Keep this in mind, one way or the other, 
however. If you think there's a good chance it'll be off-topic, it probably 
will be. If you aren't sure, don't just go ahead and post it in hopes that 
either it'll just barely be on-topic, or I won't catch it. In either 
situation, *please* ask me off-list.

James,
List Admin


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