Brandon: In the past, I have worked in environments where time and motion studies were a constant occurrence. For those of you who do not know what time and motion studies were supposed to achieve, well, they were studies carried out, usually by management, to find ways to make you do your job quicker, thus raising your productivity. If the computer mouse were put under a time and motion study, it would be found to be the most inefficient way to use a computer. One of the main reasons would be that you constantly have to take one of your hands off the keyboard in order to use it. In addition, if the pointer is, for example, at the bottom of the screen, you have to move the pointer from its current location too, more often than not, the top of the screen, in order to perform many functions of a program through the use of the menu and toolbar. And as many of us on this list are aware, many of these functions can be performed with the use of keystrokes. A good example is how many mouse clicks it takes to open a file in a program. Whereas, in most cases, if you know the name of the file you wish to open, all it takes is a few keystrokes. Sincerely: Dave Durber ----- Original Message ----- From: Brandon Keith (Biggs) To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:45 AM Subject: Re: jfw for the blind or visually impaired I actually say the same to the sighted people, I can't believe they use a mouse even though it is much slower and less efficient. I asked my sighted family why they still use the mouse for most functions and they told me that it makes them more comfortable to just use one thing to maneuver around the screen. I'm not sure why that is, but breaking that habit should be what sighted or semi sighted students learn. Although I do think that anyone that needs to magnify above 20 font and who has their face closer than two feet away from a screen should learn Jaws because it will be at least 10 times faster than using their eyes. Thanks, Brandon Keith (Biggs) Check out MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/brandonkeithcom Also add me on facebook! brandonkeith http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=675097942 And for my resume go to: http://www.sfcasting.com/brandonkeith From: kimsan Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 8:30 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: jfw for the blind or visually impaired I am responding to this comment because it made me remember when one of the tech guys were here in my office and he was upgrading my XP to windows 7 and was observing me use the computer. He said, "I'm amazed how efficient you are with the computer and you are so quick at typing but using a keyboard must be frustrating, because you cannot perform all of the functions a mouse can." Thankyou. From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of angel238@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:44 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: jfw for the blind or visually impaired Using keyboard commands far surpasses the use of the mouse. Challenge your students to a race with you. Demonstrate with your own facile use of the keyboard the speed and proficiency with which you use Jaws. This will soon convince them that they will more efficiently and effectively complete their assignments without the use of the mouse. Being able to excel beyond their sighted peers in a skill their seeing peers take pride in mastering will raise his self esteem enough to want to throw away the mouse altogether and to fully embrace controlling the computer solely through use of the keyboard. The best way to accomplish this if his sight is limited is through the use of a screen reader. I did this with my own sighted children. They understand my superiority regarding the speed with which I accomplish various computer tasks without either sight or through the use of the mouse. An African friend told me a friend of his did the same thing in Africa when a sighted employer hesitated concerning hiring him. Of course, he used manual typewriters. But, he asked to type something. The upshot was he typed better and more quickly than did the man seeking to employ him. Needless to say he got the job. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kimsan Song To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:55 PM Subject: RE: jfw for the blind or visually impaired Adrian: That has been a large discussion between my coworker and myself every time these evaluations come up. The students are struggling to accept the vision lost they are experiencing and the use of a cane, large print, screen readers, anything that will "make them feel different" the student will not embrace, which I can attest too. Seeing as I am not in any position to tell the powers that be what to teach or how to accommodate the students with which screen reader or magnification program, I just do as I am told. I am going through one heck of a time right now teaching jaws to the students because they are always reaching for the mouse of which I had to disconnect after a while and having to remind the students the pros of using a screen reader. Let me relay this back to the topic of the mailing list so the mods will not hatch me, seeing as I am blind I was wondering for someone who has relatively good vision, not 20-20 but how would using jaws be like? compared to someone who is completely blind? Adrian, thankyou for your comments. Take care. From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:44 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: jfw for the blind or visually impaired Kimsan, I believe that on the one hand, ideology plays a large part in decisions of this kind, and on the other, that psychology either does or ought to. whether one likes it or not, children and adults don't like being associated with anything connoting blindness. The white cane is the perfect example. I imagine resistance to JAWS comes from a similar place. In the same vein, my experience tells me that adults and children will also avoid magnification devices if they think they can get away without them. I get a sense that as a JAWS user, I tend to get a lot more information than very low vision people who struggle with magnification devices. Screenreaders are by no means perfect, and I for one hate reading fiction with JAWS, especially if it contains a lot of dialog. But I can zip through academic and popular articles, so long as they're in accessible form. I'm suggesting that whatever the practical arguments for a screenreader or other adaptive aid, it could be damaging to students of any age to introduce them to these aids until they can accept the necessity. Some will do so right away, others will resist. To my mind, nothing interferes more with education than resistance to the methods imposed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kimsan Song Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:30 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: jfw for the blind or visually impaired Mike: Thankyou for your input. I am aware of the several magnification programs that exist but it seems as if the powers that be are pushing for jaws training with my visually impaired students and I think jaws will not be a good idea because the students are mouse users using 28 pt font. I just finished explaining to someone off list that I am just suppose to teach jaws to my middle and high schoolers and if I even bring up screen magnification programs or any other screen reader, it would just be shot down. Back to the original inquory, it seems as if jaws is for the blind (which I knew so don't laugh at me) I just get confused when the teachers for the blind are having me teach jaws to students who depend and work with the mouse. Thankyou. From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mike grove Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:40 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: jfw for the blind or visually impaired there are a number of different kinds of software for visually impaired use. jaws is by far the best screen reader i have found for an individual that can nolonger read the print inspite of size. there are some products that magnify the screen. One in particular is zoom text. i am now blind, but for the last thirty years i could see enough to still read larger print. Now that i can't, i have switched to jaws. those are just a few of the options. i am sure that there are more. i hope this was of some help for u. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kimsan Song To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:18 PM Subject: jfw for the blind or visually impaired Hello: I wanted to post this here seeing as this mailing list gets lots of traffick. My question is concerning the use of jaws and is the "screen" reader mainly used for completely blind individuals or partially sighted individuals? I am not a teacher for the blind, so it is interesting to me when a person is told due to his or her "lack of vision" jaws will be reccomended. So, the question raised here is where would a persons vision need to be at in order to use jaws? If someone can read 20 point font or higher would jaws be necessary? Any feedback would be appreciated. Take care.