RE: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out jaws, could someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins Fw: typing error

  • From: "Cy" <cselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:04:21 -0500

Daniel,
Funny you should reference the issue of the automobile.
Anyone recall when Jeep was not owned by Chrysler?
I owned a 68 Wagoneer and it had Chrysler tranny, Chevy engine, Ford
hubs but was all warranted by Jeep (AMC).
Now, how about the infamous Ford Explorer with Firestone tires? Ford
really took it in the shorts over that one.
Cy, the Ancient Okie....

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Yardbird
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 11:11 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out jaws,
could someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins
Fw: typing error


Hi Chris,
We're both right.  First, it should die a peaceful death, this topic.
But 
it isn't as if it never should have come up in the first place.  Let me 
explain, and maybe you'll appreciate the logic.  If you doubt my
explanation 
and think it's spurious, then ask a lawyer friend or anyone familiar
with 
the area of corporate responsibility and product liability.

First, and in fact, this is the main point, at least one lister has 
proclaimed that it's not Jaws-related, and claimed that Freedom
Scientific 
has no responsibility about it, because the software that crashes isn't
Jaws 
itself, but Eloquence.  To them, this is the crucial distinction.

If you wanted to, you could always buy and install a hardware synth of
one 
type or another.  This objection is exactly what helps to illustrate why
the 
flaw is indeed a Jaws "issue."

Let's move from screen readers to automobiles.  Think of Jaws as the
car, 
and eloquence as the transmission.  Just as Jaws incorporates Eloquence
as 
its speech engine, the hypothetical automobile in this example might use
for 
its transmission a unit manufactured to its specifications by a third
party 
outside the plant in which the majority of the car's other components
are 
built and assembled.

Just as other voice synthesizers are available if one knows to look for 
them, and wishes to pay for and install them, in this scenario also the 
extremely savvy auto buyer, likely the type of person who's something of
an 
expert hobbyist and likes to work on cars, knows that they can procure a

suitable transmission for this model from several sources as an
aftermarket 
component, or even from a wrecking yard, swap out the ailing stock 
transmission, and get the car up and running again.  If they're really 
sophisticated, they might even enjoy explaining that their preferred 
transmission sent power to that car's wheels more smoothly and
efficiently, 
as people often speak of hardware synths.

However, and this is a very big however in terms of responsibility:  As
sold 
from the showroom floor, to the vast majority of customers, the
transmission 
is an integral component of the car, not thought of by hardly anyone as
a 
user-replaceable third party component.  Most buyers have no idea that
most 
of the car was manufactured in a plant in Tennessee, but the
transmission 
was manufactured by a company in Monterrey, Mexico and shipped to the 
Tennessee plant on a production-driven schedule.

If the tranny fails, the car won't move.  The average buyer of this car,
and 
I don't mean idiots, but just regular people who need transportation,
shop 
around for a car, and then in good faith purchase this model and expect
it 
to take them to work, or school, or to the doctor's office, have no
legal or 
ethical responsibility  to think about how they could buy another 
transmission from an auto parts company in Illinois if they needed
another 
transmission.  They bought the car, and the transmission is something 
integral without which the car won't run, and the auto manufacturer is 
responsible for the car's overall functionality, including anything
related 
to the transmission, even if they've mentioned it by name in their 
advertising as the wonderful, smooth, powerful Eloquence transmission.
What 
matters is that this is part of the car, not a superficial part like a 
custom hubcap.  It's their responsibility.  by integrating it into the
car, 
they've taken full responsibility for its functionality or failure.

And so it is with Jaws and Eloquence.  When you buy a copy of Jaws, you
buy 
it with the expectation that the synth will deliver the text to speech 
output to your ears.  Simple as that.  Without the synth functioning,
you 
have no screen reader.  With it functioning but so imperfectly that it
can 
sabotage and bring down the screen reader,you still have a case of
overall 
product failure caused by this essential component.

In other words, a failure of Eloquence absolutely is a Jaws issue, and
the 
fact that some users of Jaws are knowledgeable about alternative 
synthesizers and financially willing to buy them, and skillful enough to

install them, is irrelevant to the discussion of responsibility and
agency. 
For most of us, Eloquence is part of Jaws as it comes to us as a
product, a 
product so expensive that some people might find it hard to believe that

some of its users felt so sanguine about its speech engine breaking
down. 
In other products, both the explicit and implied warranty is that the 
product either will work out of the box, or it will be repaired.

Now I'm perfectly ready to drop this.  But it's hard to watch people
just 
yell at each other to the point of irrationality, like an argument in a
bar. 
This isn't a philosophical issue.  It's got legal and ethical factors
that 
are part of a very long tradition in the codes of commerce and
liability.

"Chris Skarstad" <toonhead5@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out jaws,
could 
someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins Fw:
typing 
error


this whole topic should be removed from the list actually. it's stupid
and serves no purpose. This isn't even a JAWS problem.


At 08:34 PM 5/1/2005, you wrote:
>Ah..  So you guys know some guys who know some guys?  Okay.  I stand 
>duly warned.  Praise the Lord and pass the canneloni...
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Anthony Vece" <ajvece@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:17 PM
>Subject: Re: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out jaws, 
>could someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins 
>Fw: typing error
>
>
>You Tell them.
>
>PAISAN!!!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Eugene Baroni" <meangene124@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:39 AM
>Subject: Re: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out jaws, 
>could someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins 
>Fw: typing error
>
>
> >I feel that if anyone else writes that word they should put on the
> >removal
> > list because they apparently aren't mature enough and have no
empathy 
> > for
> > anyone else.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gene" <guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: jaws quits on the word c a e s u r e it knocks out
jaws,
> > could
> > someone find out what makes certain words do this? Dave Hutchins Fw:
> > typing
> > error
> >
> >
> > Cute... did you get a good laugh?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks; Gene
> >
> > On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
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