dear list I hear you refer to items being embedded at times. I once had a former isp remain embedded on my laptop,was told it was due to manner it was put on with CD. ,after moving to Zen it went on advertising itself in windows and nothing could shift it. One day a VIP friend came to call and said"I can get rid of it you have to remove from registry, I watched him run one of those cleaner things you mention at times. Jaws made a dreadful fuss and in the end the computer had to be cleaned off professionally the embedded isp was said to be merely cosmetic. . but I hated itI am sure you clever folk are used to tinkering in registry But remember Jaws was not one bit happy regards dorothy