Re: Word maximize and zoom (was Re: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the whole word)

  • From: "Dale Leavens" <dleavens@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:16:31 -0400

I am not certain but I think that there have been improvements in the way Jaws works with Word in recent releases.

I find now for example that in print view Word works well for me and it didn't used to. Under normal view it was also necessary to set zoom to 75% to get Jaws to read it correctly. This no longer seems to be necessary.

One confounding factor I have discovered is Windows way of changing settings for some mysterious reason and occasionally certain controls and other menu bars appear for no apparent reason. These will often confuse Jaws. Many of these happen in the View menu in my experience.

Regardless of the visual representation and how you or anyone else might think it should appear, Jaws doesn't always see the screen or at least interpret it in the obvious way.

This is not an explanation, it is an observation. I use Word daily at work for purposes of documentation and I am always in a hurry so these frustrations drive me nuts. I should just sit there and figure it all out when it happens but I need to get my notes out and on to the next task so I just fiddle settings until I get it working and promise I will figure out how and why this stuff happens another time. I suspect some of it is the template under which certain documents are created which hijack the environment but I really don't know.

I do want to assure other users though that they are not imagining the behavior when they can't read or write or format things in word with Jaws as they anticipate.


Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada DLeavens@xxxxxxx Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Word maximize and zoom (was Re: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the whole word)



Kelly,

I knew that the Word version of maximization from those controls or that
little menu was not like maximizing using the View menu in IE. I was just
giving an example of something similar. sorry it wasn't a good comparison.
As I said, I've used Word for years, first without Jaws and now with it, and
always run it in a normal window. I repeat that I have no idea why this
idea of maximizing application interfaces the way you describe is
recommended so often. I've never heard such advice except on mailing lists
when someone's having a problem, and each time, I try to imagine what
someone thinks they mean. I wonder if they think that Word normally would
present itself in some sort of miniature window or something, which I've
never known to happen. What can I say about that.


As for the zoom deal, I didn't say it wouldn't make any difference to Jaws
if you fooled around with it in a way that flummoxed Jaws. But again, in my
long experience, you don't have to do one single thing to that setting.
Just leave it normal, which is 100 per cent. No reduction, no
magnification. It works just fine. again, I don't know where this Jaws
idea comes from. Maybe it's from long ago, many Jaws versions ago, when
someone trained someone to do this thing? I know that all my Word text is
always just fine when displayed perfectly normally. Of course, if I magnify
it to 200 per cent, it's going to screw up Jaws. That doesn't contradict
what I'm saying about normal being just fine.


there's something here I'm not getting, and I think it would take someone
with a different background, say as a trainer or a troubleshooter, to
explain how these two recommendations got started and became conventional
wisdom.

Sorry. Not trying to change your mind. Just happened to know from my own
experience what I know, for my own successful Jaws usage.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hill" <khill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Word maximize and zoom (was Re: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the
whole word)



Yardbird,
The maximize I am talking about is the maximize symbol that appears on the
title bar and in the system menu once Word or any other program is running.
Perhaps the item in the view menu of Microsoft Explorer to which you refer
is the option for full screen. That would almost certainly expand the
webpage portion to push the menu bar off of the screen.


The zoom feature in the view menu of Word controls how the document looks on
screen and to my knowledge has no affect on how your document will print.
If you think Zoom has no affect, try setting it to 200% and reading a
document.


I'm still curious why this person's Jaws was only reading partial words.
Perhaps the font was really huge.


Kelly
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:04 PM
Subject: Word maximize and zoom (was Re: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the whole
word)



I've heard this advice about the zoom setting so often, and maximization
as
well, that I would like to offer my own experience with Jaws, over several
versions, on several computers, and with several editions of Word.


First of all, maximization. If you go into the properties for the Start
Menu icon or the hotkey combination you use to launch Word, you'll see
among the items a choice of having it run normal or maximized. And normal
really means normal. Word running this way fills the screen, from top to
bottom and from left to right. I've never tried setting it to the
Maximized
option and observed what happens then (I'm partially sighted so can
actually
observe this sort of thing), but I know from the one time I set Internet
Explorer to run maximized, using the View menu option, it had the
unfortunate effect of pushing the menu bar off the screen to make room for
even more of the main window, which wasn't necessary for any practical
reason and of course made it impossible to use IE's menu commands. Not
very
practical. And it didn't have any effect on Jaws, at all. Good or bad.
As
I say, I don't know what running maxed would do to Word, but I've never
run
it that way, and so far as I know, it's not necessary. Normal is just
fine.
Normal is normal. Honestly, normal doesn't mean Word is displaying in a
reduced-sized window that's confusing jaws by letting it see things around
the Word document. That isn't what normal does. Normal fills the screen.
I have no idea where this idea about maximizing Word comes from. Maybe
it's
extrapolated from other applications, which may open smaller than full
size
and need to be expanded fully for the sake of Jaws. I don't know.


And as for the Zoom to 75 per cent thing, that, too, makes no sense to me.
I just looked at my Word View menu in the Zoom option,, and it's set to
100
per cent as it always has been for me. This, too, is simply normal. I
think
it would take an FS tech person to explain to me how this recommendation
ever came to be given to Jaws users.


As I say, these are my own experiences, as a seasoned Jaws user with Word.
Just for comparison.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hill" <khill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the whole word



If your Word window is maximized, zoom is set to 75% and you are in normal
view,
you have no tool bars other than standard and formatting displayed and
you
have set all your Windows XP settings to match the Jaws help topic
"Windows
XP and Jaws," I'll be very interested to know what the problem is when you
find out.



Kelly Hill

And thi8s only happens in Word?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stansifer" <larrys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <Recipient list suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: Jaws 7.10 not speaking the whole word



Hi Folks,

I am using JFW 7.10, Windows-XP and Microsoft office XP-pro.

When creating or editing a document in word Jaws doesn't always speak the
entire word. Their doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what part of
the word Jaws ignores or how often it does it.
Screen is refreshed, all ms-word are set to FS recommended, both
application and document windows are maximized and all of my Windows-XP
settings are correct.


This isn't a critical flaw but is certainly a pain in the 32nd Vertebrae.
Having already ruled out sledge hammer 1.0 I am open to any other
suggestions.



Regards

Larry Stansifer

Toll Free 1 (800)-527-9572
Voice: 1 (435)-688-1391
Fax: 1 (435) 628-6981
Email: larrys@xxxxxxxxxxxx


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