Re: The old Jaws hotkey issue, again

  • From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:40:17 -0800

Chris,

Thanks to your detailed directions, I finally managed to overcome my 
problem, because you were able to explain how Windows was being confounded 
by too casual a method of changing hotkey assignments. there's no way I 
could have thought on my own about how windows registers these assignments, 
in contrast from what one might innocently imagine. How did you happen to 
learn about this?

I've got my hotkeys assigned as I prefer them now, j for the current version 
and k for the one preceding, in case I need to fall back on it (I'm not the 
kind of user who chooses between different versions because I know that one 
works  better in one context and another version in another context. I just 
like to have a backup, like having a second car in case the new one has to 
go to the shop for a week.

But here's something that I can't figure out intuitively, as I couldn't 
understand the overall issue intuitively, either. Someone else in the course 
of this thread advised me to pay attention to the properties hotkey settings 
associated with the program launch control under Start/Programs, instead of 
the icon properties. Or in addition to the icon properties. I can't 
remember. My mind is spinning from going back and forth among all these 
properties dialogues, then exiting Jaws and testing the hotkeys I've 
attempted to set up, and then returning to one or another of the properties 
dialogues yet again.

What's the relationship between the Start Menu/Programs-related Properties 
settings and the seemingly identical dialogues you get when you look at the 
icon properties? By the way, just want to mention that while the trusty old 
Alt Enter may bring up properties for an icon, if you do it while focused on 
the Jaws launch item on the Start Menu/Programs display, all you'll get is 
the properties routines related to the Desktop and Task Bar. Just in case 
that helps someone.

For instance, I discovered that after I'd deleted the previous hotkey in 
both a version's Desktop icon and its Start Menu/Programs launch item, then 
provided a letter to go with the default Control Alt in just the Start 
menu/Programs item, then exited Jaws and pressed that key combo, it worked, 
and launched the version I meant it to launch. But at this point, I hadn't 
even yet opened the icon's properties and assigned the key combination 
there, yet. So does one of these locations have priority, in the case of a 
disagreement? Or, as in this case, is it completely redundant to assign a 
hotkey to the icon once you've assigned it on the Start Menu? Or am I not 
asking this in the right order? Can you explain the correlation between 
icons and their Start menu counterparts in regard to hotkeys?

Thanks. Hope I haven't asked my questions too confusingly. I'm obviously a 
bit addled by this point.

From: "Mullins, Chris" <Chris.Mullins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:01 AM
Subject: RE: The old Jaws hotkey issue, again


I have not had the problem with any automatically generated desktop
icons but then again, I'm stil on Jaws 7.1.  The desctop shortcut was
generated by the installation program, programmers can make mistakes, so
it makes sense to me, to check that the contents correspond to the
label.

I have done a bit of testing and found that if you specify a hot key
combination that is already being used, the setting is retained in the
shortcut key property but will not work, as it would seem that Windows
registers the shortcut key combination and the path to the related
executable and this is not over-written by a new shortcut definition
using the same key combination.  It would seem a hot key combination is
only released by Windows when a shortcut is either deleted altogether or
the Shortcut key property is changed to another unused key combination.

This would explain your circumstances.  Alt+Control+j was not registered
when the Jaws9 shortcut was automatically created because it was already
being used by Jaws8.  When you manually set the shortcut property of
Jaws8 to Alt+Control+k, this did not register either because it was
already being used by Jaws7.

To fix your situation you must first set the shortcut property of Jaws7
to something not currently being used.  The shortcut key property of
Jaws8 is set to alt+control+k but this will still not work because it
has not yet been registered.  If you open up the Shortcut tab for Jaws8,
tab down to OK and press enter, it still will not register because no
details have changed on the screen, so the registration process is not
triggered.  You have to change the shortcut key property to something
else unused, OK it, then go back in and set it to alt+control+k, OK it
again and it will now register.  To fix Jaws9, repeat what you did for
Jaws8 but using alt+control+j.


Cheers
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Yardbird
Sent: 06 December 2007 00:13
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: The old Jaws hotkey issue, again

Chris,

I understand what you mean, and I know where to look for what you're
talking about. But tell me, why would an icon recently and automatically
created when I installed Jaws 9 have anything in its target field other
than the path to the executable for launching that version, which I'd
just installed and which had created that icon? How could that kind of
problem happen? I will look, but it doesn't seem likely. Have you ever
discovered that your automatically-created program icons pointed to the
wrong program? If so, I'd be interested to hear how it happened and
which icons had turned out to be messed up like this. thanks very
much.----- Original Message ----- 

There are other things I could say to express why this sounds unlikely
to me, but that question ought to be a start.
From: "Mullins, Chris" <Chris.Mullins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: The old Jaws hotkey issue, again


When you have gone into the Shortcut dialog, have you checked what the
Target file edit box is referencing?  Changing the label of the icon is
not sufficient, the Icon might be labelled Jaws9 but if the file name in
the target edit box is in the Jaws8 folder you will load Jaws8.
Likewise, with an icon labelled Jaws8 pointing at the Jaws7 executable.
All a shortcut does is to simulate typing the contents of the Target
edit box into the Run dialog and pressing enter.


Cheers
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Yardbird
Sent: 05 December 2007 06:37
To: JFW List
Subject: The old Jaws hotkey issue, again

the topic of how to successfully set a hotkey for launching Jaws has
come up repeatedly over the past year, as Versions 8, and now 9, seem to
be troublesome for a lot of users in this respect. Well, I was doing
okay with version 8 for a while after finally getting a hotkey
assignment to stick (I forget how, exactly), but now I've installed
Version 9 and it's even stranger than before.

First of all, let me make it clear that I basically know how to do this.
At least I know how to do it for any other application that's
represented by an icon on my desktop. Select the icon, press the context
menu key (right side of spacebar, to left of Control key) and choose
properties. Tab, and you're in the edit field for establishing a hotkey.
You don't even have to bother pressing control and alt, because that's
the standard combination and Jaws will insert that for you. All you have
to do is press the letter key you'd like to use.

Then you hear Jaws read the edit box, and it'll say something like
Control Alt J. Which is what you wanted. You tab down to OK, press
Enter, and there you go.

Well, since Jaws 8, everyone's had to do all sorts of acrobatics to use
this feature. Advice floats around like urban myths. Use this letter but
not that letter. It's okay to tab away from the field, but don't tab
back to it or what you entered will disappear. Or don't tab at all, just
press Enter. If you tab further into the dialogue, it will delete your
entry. And so forth.

Now, none of that ought to be necessary, of course, and it didn't used
to be. Until Jaws 8. But whatever.

Now it's really interesting. I actually managed to set Control Insert J
for my new Jaws 9, and changed my hotkey for Jaws 8 to Control Alt K,
just in case I need to use it.

And both settings stayed set, which I thought was a good sign. But now,
if I exit Jaws 9 to see if restarting it will stop a bad behavior (don't
ask) and then press Control Alt J, what comes up but, yep, Jaws 8. I
went to the Desktop and rechecked. yes, everything is still set just as
I set it. But it's working the wrong way.

Ah, here's a thought, just for the heck of it. Let me exit Jaws 9, then
hotkey Control Alt key and see if it actually *also* brings up Jaws 8
or, maybe, launches Jaws 9, so that it's all backward. Hang on..
Nope. Control Alt K brings up Jaws 7, which is what it used to do before
I changed everything around. And if I go into the properties for the
Jaws 7 icon, it says it has no hot key, just as I'd think it would.
Nonetheless, it's as if Jaws 7 is still K, Jaws 8 is still J, and Jaws 9
has no hotkey.
none of which is what properties say.

Has anyone been through this, or anything like it? I've tried this
repeatedly but can't get these hotkeys to behave correctly. Out of
ideas.

thanks.

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