Re: Punctuation and JAWS
- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:04:13 -0800
I see. Well, how about subscribing to the Jaws Lite list, where FS's Eric
Damery is also subscribed and pretty responsive to inquiries about things
like this? If you'd like to do that, email me privately at
yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and I'll dig the subscribe address out of a folder
of such things in my Inbox.
But I'll also write them soon at the below address and add my voice to
yours. Since you've bothered to bring this issue up, I've had to admit to
myself that I, too, find it a pain to lack these few important touches that
would make Jaws render text more sensibly, without the added stress that
these workarounds, especially making any more punctuation actually speak
than necessary-- my normally sighted friends can't take hearing even a
couple of lines like this, and can't believe I can bear whole days reading
and writing while listening to all that crap. Anyway.
Daniel
hearithi----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <A.Spratt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Punctuation and JAWS
I have made this suggestion several times to FS by email, to their technical
support staff and to their marketing management. I've never received a
reply to these email messages and never been given a definitive statement in
conversation. That's one reason why I bring it up on this list. I'm hoping
others feel the same way and might make their voices heard, too.
Here's FS's brief statement of its commitment to quality and information on
how to contact them in this regard. I just now made a copy from their
website:
Freedom Scientific's Quality Statement
We dedicate resources for continuous innovation in the development,
production, and delivery of our products, while providing customer service
excellence and respect for our customers to meet or exceed their
expectations.
If you need to contact our quality team, or need help getting a problem
resolved, we encourage you to e-mail us at
Quality at Freedom Scientific
or call our Director of Technical Support:
Domestic: 800-444-4443, ext. 1062
International: 727-803-8600, ext. 1062
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>I agree, thoroughly. Why don't you compose a letter of suggestion to that
>effect and email it to whichever FS address is the most appropriate for
>submitting such comments? I'm not sure which address is the best one for
>this, but... let's see which list we're on, here...okay, maybe Bruce Towes
>can identify the right email address? So it doesn't get lost amidst
>general gripes, pleas for assistance, and so forth?
>
> Seriously. do it. Even if they're as busy as you generously speculate,
> they need to know that this area of concern isn't quite taken care of, as
> they might believe it to be.
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Spratt" <A.Spratt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:46 PM
> Subject: Punctuation and JAWS
>
>
> Hi. We essentially agree in our approaches. Apparently like you, I'm
> obsessed with punctuation, both in trying to understand what I'm reading
> and
> in making sure my own documents are accurate. I think my position comes
> down to this. FS in many ways has done a nice job of making the Net and
> other text sources accessible in ways that enable users to focus their
> attention on substance rather than process. To the extent that's not
> possible, many visually impaired people, including myself, have become
> accustomed to making adjustments and developing work-arounds. But the
> goal
> ought to be to make JAWS as simple and as unobtrusive as sighted people
> expect their software to be. The two types of adjustments I propose,
> adding
> a pause after colons and semicolons and correcting the single-quotation
> defect, would greatly enhance a JAWS user's experience. I understand that
> FS must be devoting many of their resources to making JAWS work with
> Firefox
> and keeping up with other developments on the Net. However, bread and
> butter issues like these should not be neglected.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>>I understand. I've just accustomed myself to hearing some punctuation
>>spoken that other people might not like to hear, and if I doubt the syntax
>>of a sentence or phrase at all, I just stop and examine it word by word at
>>the place that worried me. I also have gotten used to figuring out when
>>I'm reading something that's within single quotes somewhere like the
>>Times,
>>and so forth, somehow or other. I'm sorry. It really is a hassle, just
>>as
>>you say. These are just the adjustments I've made in order to accommodate
>>these imperfections. But I'm serious that I really prefer to hear some
>>punctuation actually spoken, though I regret the necessity eecisiity as
>>much as any sane person would. But it's better than having jaws sail on
>>and leave me befuddled, or settling for getting the "general idea." I'd
>>rather hear my quotes and such spoken if need be. I just factor it into
>>my
>>reading experience and visualize it on the page and feel better, finally,
>>not worse, thereby. And these preferences serve me well when I'm writing
>>or editing. So it's not entirely tragic, just kind of a drag.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Adrian Spratt" <A.Spratt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: Punctuation and JAWS
>>
>>
>> I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Still, the "most" or "some"
>> punctuation
>> setting question is a little different. I think of reading a long
>> document
>> on the Net where a semicolon can actually alter the meaning of a
>> sentence.
>> With a pause it would read one way, without a pause it reads another.
>> Personally, I get distracted from the content when listening to
>> punctuation
>> marks being spoken. The single quotation problem is even worse, since
>> JAWS
>> doesn't speak words accurately inside them. I face that issue all the
>> time
>> when reading the New York Times, for example. What I find strange is
>> that
>> both problems ought to be simple fixes for FS. They know how to insert
>> pauses after commas and other punctuation, and JAWS handles words inside
>> double quotations with ease.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>> Adrian,
>>> this is just my personal preference, but I keep Jaws set to speak most
>>> punctuation, from among the choices offered in the basics menu. which
>>> means that I don't hear things like commas spoken, but do hear single
>>> and
>>> double quotation marks spoken so that I am apprised that it's a
>>> quotation
>>> or a quotation within a quotation that I'm hearing. This is essential
>>> to
>>> me in a way it might not be for another user, I understand. As for
>>> colons
>>> and semicolons, I don't have jaws set to speak them, and I, too, regret
>>> that they don't produce a significant pause. I think the only way to
>>> really be sure what was happening, aside from reading word by word,
>>> would
>>> be to go into the Configuration Manager verbosity section and get those
>>> and other punctuation marks to speak, though I'd hate to do it. If
>>> you're
>>> writing something yourself, rather than reading what's already been
>>> written by someone else, leaving two spaces after a colon (and even
>>> after
>>> a period) in the way that seems to have gone out of fashion (a semicolon
>>> has always required only one space following)helps to slow Jaws down
>>> appropriately, to indicate the rhythmic nuance. But in my experience,
>>> anyway, it isn't possible to simply have text spoken in the cadence
>>> that
>>> accurately reflects all such punctuation, I'm afraid. What I describe
>>> are
>>> just some tricks I've had to learn to bear with because of this.
>>>
>>> sometone ,
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Adrian Spratt" <A.Spratt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>
>>> I find it helps my reading comprehension when JAWS pauses at commas and
>>> other punctuation. However, it doesn't pause after colons or
>>> semicolons.
>>> Also, JAWS reads text well between double quotation marks, but not when
>>> the
>>> text is between single quotations. Does anyone have any suggestions how
>>> I
>>> can make appropriate adjustments?
>>>
>>> Or, as I suspect, are these limitations inherent in JAWS? In that case,
>>> do
>>> they interfere with other people's ability to comprehend what they read
>>> with
>>> JAWS?
>>>
>>> I've written several times to the FS suggestions email address, but
>>> without
>>> getting any response.
>>>
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