RE: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"
- From: "Drew Hunthausen" <dhunthausen@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:05:14 -0700
I think there are valid points on both sides of the argument. All I have to
say is that Freedom Scientific has made some bad Jaws upgrades that cost us
money, but with the relatively small blind population, they need to put paid
upgrades out so that they can have the funding to keep improving the
product. Otherwise there wouldn't be money to make the good upgrades that we
all like. Just my two sense worth
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:53 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"
tim, my point exactly. the upgrades are just a money grab and we the blind
are victims of this highway robbery. karen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <tim@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"
> But are the upgrades for JAWS really significant upgrades? From what I
> have heard there was virtually nothing worth upgrading to version 12 for.
> A new version is put out every year which seems a bit much in my opinion.
> I think Freedom Scientific is doing this to its customers simply because
> it can. Put quite simply: if you can take someone's money why stop at only
> taking some of their money. Freedom Scientific wants to see lots of
> dollars falling from the money tree which they seem to think I have
> growing in my backyard. This chosen method of doing sales along with the
> reauthorization code nightmare foisted upon its customers have caused me
> to switch to Window Eyes. Now I am truly free and quite happy about it.
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:37 AM
> Subject: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"
>
>
> Before we indict JAWS for predation against the blind, we probably should
> step back a little. Freedom Scientific's practice of requiring all
> interim versions to be brought up to date is not uncommon at all in
> vertical markets. Oracle does essentially the same thing. So long as the
> customer has a "maintenance agreement" in effect, the customer gets
> upgrades for free -- plus technical support.
> Once the maintenance agreement lapses, to get the current version, there
> is a "catch-up" payment required. In fact, that's pretty much standard in
> vertical market software.
> I'm using the term "vertical market software" to mean something other than
> off-the-shelf shrink-wrap-licensed software like Microsoft Office.
> Even Microsoft Office has a vertical market type model for enterprise
> customers.
> So, I think the real argument is not whether Freedom Scientific is preying
> on the blind, as one might be led to believe, but rather whether the
> vertical market model or the off-the-shelf model for software licensing is
> more appropriate.
> I'm not trying to defend anyone; just trying to be fair to all.
>
> As long as you
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Karen Hughes
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:52 AM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: the virtual ribbon
>
> cy I agree with you and believe the blind are being penalized big time. I
> ask myself, would a seeing person put up with this. why could you not just
> purchase the current version. why do you have to pay for older versions
> you
> did not even want or need. Karen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:28 AM
> Subject: RE: the virtual ribbon
>
>
>> It is funny that FS handles Open Book updates differently.
>> Regardless of how many versions you are behind the cost is, I believe,
>> only
>> $150 to get current.
>> Several years ago I had to bring my JAWS up to date and I think it was
>> something like $500.
>> What a bunch of nonsense.
>> Cy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Karen Hughes
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:15 AM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: the virtual ribbon
>>
>> i too did not update so thought i would not have to pay for something i
>> did
>> not use. found out different when charged four hundred and fifty dollars.
>> i
>> had to pay for the new update plus the ones i did not use. buyer beware.
>> who
>>
>> said life was fair. karen
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dawn Thullen" <gdandet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: the virtual ribbon
>>
>>
>>>I strongly urge you to buy the SMA if at all possible. I skipped a
>>>version
>>
>>>and the cost was ridiculous. Don't forget, the more versions you skip,
>>>the
>>
>>>more money it costs. As freedomscientific told me "just because you
>>>didn't
>>
>>>upgrade, didn't mean that technology didn't move on."
>>>
>>> Dawn
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 5:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: the virtual ribbon
>>>
>>>
>>>> Alan,
>>>>
>>>> You'll likely wait until you're in a pine box if you hope to get the
>>>> bugs
>>>> out. Cynically speaking (as I'm always reluctant to do) each new
>>>> version
>>>> will have new bugs and some old bugs remaining, ad infinitum .
>>>>
>>>> And in case you're not aware, failure to renew an SMA before a major
>>>> version
>>>> comes out will cost you a whole heck of a lot more money. I'll let
>>>> other
>>>> chime in on their experience. My advice is to purchase the SMA for 12
>>>> and
>>
>>>> 13
>>>> and wait for 13. I skipped version 10, for example, as it made me ill.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>> Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in the general vicinity of my Audio
>>>> Recording and Mixing Studios, San Francisco Bay Area.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 14:20
>>>> Subject: the virtual ribbon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Kenny,
>>>> Thanks very much for that kind offer, but I only have JAWS 11.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose I need to look at getting JAWS 12, but since I do not have
>>>> any
>>>> more SMA's, and I am hoping they will get all the bugs out of that
>>>> version
>>>> before I purchase it, well I will wait a bit more!
>>>> Besides, I understand that the "virtual ribbon" is not a total "fix",
>>>> it
>>>> only helps out a bit, is that correct?
>>>>
>>>> Wow, I have been using the JAWS Menu bars since 1999, with JAWS 3.3!
>>>>
>>>> And although I feel I am making a little progress getting the hang of
>>>> it,
>>
>>>> I
>>>> see it will be a slow learning curb!
>>>> A completely different thing!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>
>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>> Alan
>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kenny Peyatt" <p.wildcat1234@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 3:51 PM
>>>> Subject: the virtual ribbon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi allan The virtual ribbon is a jaws 12 feature. To turn it on in
>>>>> jaws
>>>>> 12
>>>>> You go to the setttings center. If you like I can connect to your
>>>>> computer
>>>>> through jaws tandom and activate the feature for you.
>>>>> --
>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>> line.
>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>>> or
>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> JFW related links:
>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>> line.
>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>
>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>> or
>>>> the
>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
>>>> the
>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> JFW related links:
>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>> line.
>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>
>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>> or
>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> --
>>> JFW related links:
>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>> JFW List instructions:
>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>
>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links:
>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>> Scripting mailing list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>> JFW List instructions:
>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>> the
>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
>> the
>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links:
>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>> Scripting mailing list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>> JFW List instructions:
>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> Scripting mailing list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> Alternative archives located at:
> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
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> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> Scripting mailing list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
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> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
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>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3655 - Release Date: 05/23/11
> 01:35:00
>
> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> Scripting mailing list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> Alternative archives located at:
> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
Scripting mailing list:
http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
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If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3657 - Release Date: 05/24/11
--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
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JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
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