the point is you dont know what you are getting until after the purchase is made. karen
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dewey Bradley" <deweyspr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"
Its called a free market, you don't have to buy a company's product if you don't want.They have to pay the bills to.They have to keep up with ever changing technology, such as new versions of windows. I'm not sticking up for FS, I don't like them eather, but we have a choice to use window eyes or some other productDewey Bradley Springfield Missouri In God we trust----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: RE: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"Hi, Rather than to continue to add on additional functions to JAWS it would*REALLY* be nice if the existing functions worked reliably. It would also be nice to have good access to Excel and Access, Access in particular because Iwould love to build a database for my own use. Cy -----Original Message-----From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On BehalfOf Gerald Levy Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:51 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"JAWS has reached the point of diminishing returns. There is really little that FS can add to JAWS to improve its functionality beyond what it already offers. Going forward, any enhancements to JAWS will most likely be tweaksto improve compatibility with the Windows OS. Other features of dubiousvalue will continue to be added to justify charging for updates. The JAWSbusiness model is based largely on the business model pioneered by theDetroit auto makers: planned obsolescence. Introduce a new model every yearthat is "bigger and better" than the previous year's model. This worked during the 1950's, until consumers wised up in the 1960's and 1970's.Eventually, the auto makers were forced to declare bankruptcy because theykept churning out products consumers didn't want or need. FS seems to be going down the same path. Gerald----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" <tim@xxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:39 AMSubject: Re: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"But are the upgrades for JAWS really significant upgrades? From what Ihave heard there was virtually nothing worth upgrading to version 12 for. A new version is put out every year which seems a bit much in my opinion.I think Freedom Scientific is doing this to its customers simply becauseit can. Put quite simply: if you can take someone's money why stop at onlytaking some of their money. Freedom Scientific wants to see lots of dollars falling from the money tree which they seem to think I have growing in my backyard. This chosen method of doing sales along with the reauthorization code nightmare foisted upon its customers have caused me to switch to Window Eyes. Now I am truly free and quite happy about it. Tim----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:37 AM Subject: Paying for skipped versions of jaws; was "the virtual ribbon"Before we indict JAWS for predation against the blind, we probably shouldstep back a little. Freedom Scientific's practice of requiring all interim versions to be brought up to date is not uncommon at all invertical markets. Oracle does essentially the same thing. So long as thecustomer has a "maintenance agreement" in effect, the customer gets upgrades for free -- plus technical support. Once the maintenance agreement lapses, to get the current version, thereis a "catch-up" payment required. In fact, that's pretty much standard invertical market software.I'm using the term "vertical market software" to mean something other thanoff-the-shelf shrink-wrap-licensed software like Microsoft Office. Even Microsoft Office has a vertical market type model for enterprise customers.So, I think the real argument is not whether Freedom Scientific is preyingon the blind, as one might be led to believe, but rather whether thevertical market model or the off-the-shelf model for software licensing ismore appropriate. I'm not trying to defend anyone; just trying to be fair to all. As long as you -----Original Message-----From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On BehalfOf Karen Hughes Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:52 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: the virtual ribboncy I agree with you and believe the blind are being penalized big time. I ask myself, would a seeing person put up with this. why could you not justpurchase the current version. why do you have to pay for older versions you did not even want or need. Karen----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:28 AM Subject: RE: the virtual ribbonIt is funny that FS handles Open Book updates differently. Regardless of how many versions you are behind the cost is, I believe, only $150 to get current. Several years ago I had to bring my JAWS up to date and I think it was something like $500. What a bunch of nonsense. Cy -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Karen Hughes Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:15 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: the virtual ribbon i too did not update so thought i would not have to pay for something i didnot use. found out different when charged four hundred and fifty dollars.ihad to pay for the new update plus the ones i did not use. buyer beware.who said life was fair. karen----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Thullen" <gdandet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:18 PM Subject: Re: the virtual ribbonI strongly urge you to buy the SMA if at all possible. I skipped a versionand the cost was ridiculous. Don't forget, the more versions you skip, themore money it costs. As freedomscientific told me "just because you didn'tupgrade, didn't mean that technology didn't move on." Dawn----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Re: the virtual ribbonAlan, You'll likely wait until you're in a pine box if you hope to get the bugs out. Cynically speaking (as I'm always reluctant to do) each new version will have new bugs and some old bugs remaining, ad infinitum . And in case you're not aware, failure to renew an SMA before a major version comes out will cost you a whole heck of a lot more money. I'll let other chime in on their experience. My advice is to purchase the SMA for 12 and13and wait for 13. I skipped version 10, for example, as it made me ill.Dave Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in the general vicinity of my Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Francisco Bay Area.----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 14:20 Subject: the virtual ribbon Dear Kenny, Thanks very much for that kind offer, but I only have JAWS 11. I suppose I need to look at getting JAWS 12, but since I do not have any more SMA's, and I am hoping they will get all the bugs out of that version before I purchase it, well I will wait a bit more!Besides, I understand that the "virtual ribbon" is not a total "fix",it only helps out a bit, is that correct? Wow, I have been using the JAWS Menu bars since 1999, with JAWS 3.3! And although I feel I am making a little progress getting the hang of it,I see it will be a slow learning curb! A completely different thing! Thanks again! With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page: http://AmericanBlindChess.org----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Peyatt" <p.wildcat1234@xxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: the virtual ribbonHi allan The virtual ribbon is a jaws 12 feature. To turn it on in jaws 12 You go to the setttings center. If you like I can connect to your computer through jaws tandom and activate the feature for you. -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.htmlIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or theway the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contactthe list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message tojfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.htmlIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, orthe way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message tojfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.htmlIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, orthe way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3655 - Release Date: 05/23/11 01:35:00 -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx