RE: One or two spaces
- From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:30:33 -0500
All:
Since as early as Word XP (before Office 2003), Word included a feature under
Format and Paragraph. One may specify either space before or after a new
paragraph. The key code feature for Word is the paragraph marker or return.
The amount of space is not denominated in lines. Rather, Points. A
designation of 6 Points, or "6 Pts" is roughly half a line. The enumeration
"12 Pts" is the equivalent, roughly speaking, of one full line.
Unfortunately, that is one status feature that the JAWS key plus F command does
not report. So, one has to manually check it.
The consequences of not checking can be rather disastrous -- if you
mechanically enter two carriage returns between paragraphs.
That particular feature is also undesirable, for example, in the address block
in a letter.
That is the reason styles are useful in Word. Well, it is one of many reasons.
The Address Block style typically does not have the "12 pts" in the "after"
field in the Format Paragraph dialog box.
As for one or two spaces after periods at the end of sentences, remember, there
remain many format specifications where ragged right is preferred or even
required. Then, the two spaces after a period seems appropriate.
Journalists have been omitting the second period for years. Formal legal
documents (and the law is usually behind on everything) still typically contain
two spaces after a period.
________________________________
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
G.W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:49 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: One or two spaces
I think the space between single-spaced paragraph blocks is called "line
spacing." I knew one blind computer user who insisted on making that line
spacing one half out of some desire to conserve behind-the-scenes coding.
Either Word 2007 or 2010 has automated that spacing between paragraph blocks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Durber<mailto:d.durber@xxxxxxxxx>
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: One or two spaces
As an Optacon user, (Remember that useful gadget), to read books, I notice that
the amount of space between sentences still seems to be the equivalent of two
spaces.
There is a feature in Word that will create the equivalent amount of space
between sentences as if you had pressed the SPACE BAR twice.
You can have word do the same thing between paragraphs but with the equivalent
amount of space between paragraphs as if you had pressed the ENTER key twice.
I have not used these functions personally, this is because I have no trust in
a Microsoft product to do always what it claims to do. Oh, dear me, untrusting
cynic that I am.
So, being as I am becoming an old fuddy duddy,, I will go on tapping the SPACE
BAR twice between sentences and tapping the ENTER key twice to put a blank line
to insert a blank line between paragraphs and before and after headings.
HTH
Sincerely:
Dave Durber
----- Original Message -----
From: CrisMunoz54<mailto:crismunoz54@xxxxxxxxx>
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:36 PM
Subject: RE: One or two spaces
Two spaces are from the days of the typewriter. Go one space. It'll look better.
________________________________
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:33 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: One or two spaces
Hi, John. Just to save anyone a duplication of effort, this Wikipedia link is
to the same article as the one given to us by G.W. Cox.
________________________________
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
john R. Vaughn
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 4:57 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: One or two spaces
Adrian and list, interesting issue of whether to single or double space after
the terminal punctuation for a sentence and the beginning of the next sentence.
Believe it or not, the link below is from wicipedia on the matter and I found
this from doing a google search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#History
As for me, always a double space bar between sentences, I am going to try the
one space bar and and have sighted folks tell me if the MS Word program does
infact do some sort of variable spacing to clearly indicate the end of one
sentence and another.
John
________________________________
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:04 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: please help
Hi, Richard.
You couch your argument in terms of blind computer users making sure their work
looks as polished as our sighted colleagues. I agree with this concept, but you
do it a disservice by flatly asserting that double spaces meet that objective.
I was persuaded to switch to single spaces while using word processors by
several sighted people who observed too much space at the ends of my sentences
and by a man who has published the two standard texts on typesetting and
typeset conventions.
There may be special circumstances, such as the tab issue brought up by Ted
Lisle, but the Wikipedia entry to which G.W. Cox sent a link lays out the
history and current general preference.
This is one of those questions that is very hard for us to grasp because the
impact is purely visual. Unsupported, strongly worded assertions don't help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard P. Kelly
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:14 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: please help
Greetings all,
Proper formatting of a print document still calls for two spaces at the end of
a sentence, after a colon, and perhaps elsewhere. This remains true even with
mono spaced or proportionally spaced fonts. New word processors often assure
proper style is used if auto correct and grammar checking is on. Still, we want
what we print to look as polished as what our sighted colleagues produce; if
not better!
Cordially, Richard P. Kelly
rpkelly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:rpkelly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
www.new-visions-network.com<http://www.new-visions-network.com>
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:50 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: please help
Now that's interesting. I Have seen one space from time to time, but never knew
why. I sometimes long for the days of Pica and Elite, when laying out a
document. In the immortal words of Edith Bunker, "You knew where you were
then." However, I've managed to figure out which font-size combinations are
functional equivalents of the old Pica, 10-space-per-horozontal-inch, format,
and that's what I use. Vertical spacing will have to look after itself.
Ted
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 6:37 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: please help
I preface this suggestion by acknowledging there's a debate about whether there
should be one or two spaces after the end of a sentence. Despite my
pre-computer typing training, I have been convinced that modern print fonts
mean that two spaces are no longer desirable. So the way I solve the problem
you describe is to search for two spaces and replace with one space. If you
think there might be an odd number of spaces, say three, then search for that
number first and replace with a single space. Then search for all instances of
a double space and replace with that single space.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hina
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 6:24 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: please help
hi,
i am writing a lots of reports and i did figure out formatting issues, but i am
not sure how will i know if there are extra spaces between words, sentenses and
paragraphs without reading word by word which is so time consuming? for sighted
people, microsoft word highlights but is there any way to know with jaws?
microsoft's spell checke option says that there is extra space and suppose to
change it to make corrections, but they still remain and is there a way to deal
with this issue with jaws?
i would be very thankful for your help.
hina.
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