Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:00:41 -0800
hi Judith,
that's what I already do. I was just complaining about having to do it!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Bron" <jbron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
Here's just one more suggestion. When you go to the top of a paragraph with
control up arrow, hit the control key to shut jaws up and then press the
home key to get back on the first word of the paragraph or line. If your
fingers are quick enough I think this will net you the result you are
looking for. Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
> Gary,
>
> I understand your explanation fine, don't worry. But if I gave you the
> impression that I didn't know where the cursor was, that was just a
> careless
> mistake. You see, if you're using Jaws, as I am, it doesn't matter where
> the
> cursor is, I mean the "real" Word cursor. If I could see the screen
> clearly,
> I could just ignore that Jaws was proceeding to read the paragraph. But
> since I can't, it's disruptive because I have to stop jaws and then begin
> editing as I meant to in the first place. In other words, my concern isn't
> where the cursor is, but that jaws starts reading the way it does. I would
> be a whole lot happier with an alternative like, let's see, you control up
> arrow to the beginning of the previous graph, hear the first word of it
> spoken, and if you really want to sit back and let Jaws read the paragraph
> to you, press the Say All command. That's all I am saying. I don't need
> the
> "convenience" of Jaws doing me any favors in a situation like this.
>
> Well, don't worry. I'm reconciled to it, and at least Ted reminded me that
> I
> can always use the pass through command to have things behave as I would
> rather they did, with minimal inconvenience to me. But if I had any
> leverage
> with the Jaws design team, you bet I'd ask why they thought it was a
> helpful
> idea to have it work this way. I find it nerve-wracking and inconvenient.
> Maybe somebody enjoys it. I don't know.
>
> Thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>
>
> Daniel,
>
> I think you are still confused about what happens when you press
> Control+Up_Arrow or Control+Down_arrow. The cursor moves to the first
> word
> in the previous or next paragraph and stays there, while JFW speaks the
> paragraph. The cursor does not continue to move while JFW is speaking as
> it
> does when issuing the Say-All command. This has always been how JFW
> treats
> paragraphs. In addition, I don't see why lunging for the Control key
> should
> be necessary since your finger should already be on that key after
> pressing
> either key combination to move to the previous or next paragraph.
>
> Gary King
> w4wkz@xxxxxxxx
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>
>
>> Ted,
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me of this option. I may use it now and then. I
>> guess
>> it's a tossup between lunging for the Control key to shut Jaws up and
>> stop
>> it moving, and using the pass-through key. But when I'm working on
>> something
>> and trying to maintain my concentration, Jaws running away with my cursor
>> and jabbering can be so stressful that it's worth trying anything.
>>
>> So, thanks. I know the pass-through key idea may sound obvious, but I
>> hadn't
>> thought of it at all.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> (who is obviously no rocket surgeon)
>> curosr ro the ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)"
>> <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:45 AM
>> Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>>
>> There's a simple workaround. When you want to go to the top of a
>> paragraph, or move to the next paragraph without hearing anything, use
>> the pass-through key first. That way JFW will treat the next command as
>> a pure Windows command. I tried this approach before posting, and it
>> seems to work.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Yardbird
>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:07 AM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> I'm sorry, but this distinction is not a problem. Maybe you
>> misunderstood
>> what I was saying. When I referred to "say all," what I was trying to
>> describe was just any situation in which Jaws starts reading
>> automatically.
>> You see? My point wasn't whether that command made Jaws try to read all
>> the
>> way to the end of a document, or just to the end of a paragraph. My
>> point
>> was that I wished Jaws wouldn't start speaking at all when I went to the
>>
>> start of a paragraph just to get to the start of a paragraph and do
>> something there. See?
>>
>> thank you very much.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Jenkins" <saveup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:30 PM
>> Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> The keystroke that you are speaking of is not the say all command. This
>> keystroke places you at the top of the paragraph and only reads to the
>> bottom of the paragraph. It does not read to the bottom of the
>> document.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Yardbird
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:20 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> You're describing this key stroke as if it's Jaws proprietary, but I
>> feel as
>> if I remember it in my pre-Jaws days as simply being the Word keyboard
>> command for going to the beginning of the paragraph and staying there.
>>
>> Now, these other commands you mention, are they the one-key navigational
>> commands that were added to Jaws for Word a version or so ago, meant to
>> work
>> sort of like the one-key navigational commands on a Web page? I've never
>> tried any of those in Word, though if I read you correctly, it'd be the
>> same
>> thing. My cursor would go to that point, but Jaws would just start
>> reading
>> again like some sort of unstoppable robot.
>>
>> Well, let me try these letter P keystrokes...
>> Okay. I used the Insert V menu to turn on the navigational keystrokes. I
>> see. By "redundant," you mean equivalent in this case, as I thought. As
>> you
>> know, that has the very same effect. So I guess there's nothing for it
>> but
>> to do as I've been doing all along, as Judith reminds us. Use the
>> keystroke
>> to get where you want to, but hit Control as quickly as you can to stop
>> jaws
>> from taking off on its own. Sort of like a video game, except that,for
>> us,
>> you're talking about hand-ear coordination instead of hand-eye
>> coordination.
>>
>> Ah, my days of pinball championships at the bars and the amusement park
>> arcades. Well, that's milk under the bridge or whatever. Brain science,
>> rocket surgery.
>>
>> Darn. Oh, well, at least I asked.
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>>
>> That keystroke is move by paragraph and after you do it, it reads the
>> paragraph. The redundancy for this is P or shift P.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "JFW List" <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:13 PM
>> Subject: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm using Jaws 8, but this has been happening to me for long enough so
>> that
>> I forget when it started. Now, I'm a great fan of Say All, and use it
>> often
>> in order to sit back and listen to long sections of a text document or
>> an
>> online news article. but when I'm writing and editing in a Word
>> document,
>> the control home key command, which is just the old Word keystroke for
>> going
>> to the beginning of the previous paragraph or the paragraph you're in,
>> Jaws
>> seems to take it as a Say All command instructing it to begin speaking
>> from
>> the top of the paragraph instead of going by sentence, which is how I've
>> got
>> Say All set in Configuration Manager. But jaws shouldn't be doing
>> anything
>> like this. It should just allow me to focus on the first word of the
>> paragraph, which is all the Word key combination is supposed to achieve.
>>
>> And so if I want to begin reviewing or editing at that point, I have to
>> do
>> something like immediately press something relevant to the situation
>> like
>> control right arrow to start moving one word at a time from the start of
>> the
>> paragraph in order to keep this from happening. And if I'm not quick
>> enough,
>> Jaws just rushes ahead past where I wanted to be located, and I have to
>> stop
>> the headlong rush of the cursor and the speaking by hitting the Control
>> key
>> or whatever, then try again to get to the top of the paragraph without
>> Jaws
>> rushing ahead reading again.
>>
>> I looked in the Text Processing menu in Configuration Manager and in the
>> Say
>> All menu, too, but could find nothing that seemed relevant to this
>> issue. Am
>> I missing something? I hate having to do this crazy little wrestling
>> match
>> with Jaws.
>>
>> thanks.
>>
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