Here's just one more suggestion. When you go to the top of a paragraph with control up arrow, hit the control key to shut jaws up and then press the home key to get back on the first word of the paragraph or line. If your fingers are quick enough I think this will net you the result you are looking for. Judith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating
Gary, I understand your explanation fine, don't worry. But if I gave you theimpression that I didn't know where the cursor was, that was just a careless mistake. You see, if you're using Jaws, as I am, it doesn't matter where the cursor is, I mean the "real" Word cursor. If I could see the screen clearly,I could just ignore that Jaws was proceeding to read the paragraph. But since I can't, it's disruptive because I have to stop jaws and then begin editing as I meant to in the first place. In other words, my concern isn't where the cursor is, but that jaws starts reading the way it does. I would be a whole lot happier with an alternative like, let's see, you control up arrow to the beginning of the previous graph, hear the first word of it spoken, and if you really want to sit back and let Jaws read the paragraphto you, press the Say All command. That's all I am saying. I don't need the"convenience" of Jaws doing me any favors in a situation like this.Well, don't worry. I'm reconciled to it, and at least Ted reminded me that Ican always use the pass through command to have things behave as I wouldrather they did, with minimal inconvenience to me. But if I had any leverage with the Jaws design team, you bet I'd ask why they thought it was a helpfulidea to have it work this way. I find it nerve-wracking and inconvenient. Maybe somebody enjoys it. I don't know. Thank you.----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Daniel, I think you are still confused about what happens when you pressControl+Up_Arrow or Control+Down_arrow. The cursor moves to the first wordin the previous or next paragraph and stays there, while JFW speaks theparagraph. The cursor does not continue to move while JFW is speaking as it does when issuing the Say-All command. This has always been how JFW treats paragraphs. In addition, I don't see why lunging for the Control key should be necessary since your finger should already be on that key after pressingeither key combination to move to the previous or next paragraph. Gary King w4wkz@xxxxxxxx----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say AllnititatingTed,Thanks for reminding me of this option. I may use it now and then. I guess it's a tossup between lunging for the Control key to shut Jaws up and stopit moving, and using the pass-through key. But when I'm working on something and trying to maintain my concentration, Jaws running away with my cursor and jabbering can be so stressful that it's worth trying anything. So, thanks. I know the pass-through key idea may sound obvious, but I hadn't thought of it at all. Daniel (who is obviously no rocket surgeon) curosr ro the ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@xxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating There's a simple workaround. When you want to go to the top of a paragraph, or move to the next paragraph without hearing anything, use the pass-through key first. That way JFW will treat the next command as a pure Windows command. I tried this approach before posting, and it seems to work. Ted -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:07 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hi Chris, I'm sorry, but this distinction is not a problem. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. When I referred to "say all," what I was trying to describe was just any situation in which Jaws starts reading automatically. You see? My point wasn't whether that command made Jaws try to read all the way to the end of a document, or just to the end of a paragraph. My point was that I wished Jaws wouldn't start speaking at all when I went to the start of a paragraph just to get to the start of a paragraph and do something there. See? thank you very much.----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jenkins" <saveup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: RE: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hello. The keystroke that you are speaking of is not the say all command. This keystroke places you at the top of the paragraph and only reads to the bottom of the paragraph. It does not read to the bottom of the document. I hope this helps. Chris. -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:20 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Jerry, You're describing this key stroke as if it's Jaws proprietary, but I feel as if I remember it in my pre-Jaws days as simply being the Word keyboard command for going to the beginning of the paragraph and staying there. Now, these other commands you mention, are they the one-key navigational commands that were added to Jaws for Word a version or so ago, meant to work sort of like the one-key navigational commands on a Web page? I've never tried any of those in Word, though if I read you correctly, it'd be the same thing. My cursor would go to that point, but Jaws would just start reading again like some sort of unstoppable robot. Well, let me try these letter P keystrokes... Okay. I used the Insert V menu to turn on the navigational keystrokes. I see. By "redundant," you mean equivalent in this case, as I thought. As you know, that has the very same effect. So I guess there's nothing for it but to do as I've been doing all along, as Judith reminds us. Use the keystroke to get where you want to, but hit Control as quickly as you can to stop jaws from taking off on its own. Sort of like a video game, except that,for us, you're talking about hand-ear coordination instead of hand-eye coordination. Ah, my days of pinball championships at the bars and the amusement park arcades. Well, that's milk under the bridge or whatever. Brain science, rocket surgery. Darn. Oh, well, at least I asked. To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating That keystroke is move by paragraph and after you do it, it reads the paragraph. The redundancy for this is P or shift P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "JFW List" <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: Keeping control home from initiating Say Allnititating Hi, I'm using Jaws 8, but this has been happening to me for long enough so that I forget when it started. Now, I'm a great fan of Say All, and use it often in order to sit back and listen to long sections of a text document or an online news article. but when I'm writing and editing in a Word document, the control home key command, which is just the old Word keystroke for going to the beginning of the previous paragraph or the paragraph you're in, Jaws seems to take it as a Say All command instructing it to begin speaking from the top of the paragraph instead of going by sentence, which is how I've got Say All set in Configuration Manager. But jaws shouldn't be doing anything like this. It should just allow me to focus on the first word of the paragraph, which is all the Word key combination is supposed to achieve. And so if I want to begin reviewing or editing at that point, I have to do something like immediately press something relevant to the situation like control right arrow to start moving one word at a time from the start of the paragraph in order to keep this from happening. And if I'm not quick enough, Jaws just rushes ahead past where I wanted to be located, and I have to stop the headlong rush of the cursor and the speaking by hitting the Control key or whatever, then try again to get to the top of the paragraph without Jaws rushing ahead reading again. I looked in the Text Processing menu in Configuration Manager and in the Say All menu, too, but could find nothing that seemed relevant to this issue. Am I missing something? I hate having to do this crazy little wrestling match with Jaws. thanks. -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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