Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:36:25 +0100
hi dave my country is czech republic but I am also a permanent resident of
Canada although I am dwelling right now in Prague, califfornia sounds cool I
guess the only downtern is the death penalty I hope you guys abolish it soon. I
visited san fran many years ago nice place.
Zdenek
----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
> Zdenek,
>
> Absolutely correct. I think your suggestions and complaints about the more
> trivial parts of ResearchIt are spot on, so to speak. I'd rather they spend
> more time fixing things that don't work than adding these "toys".
>
> So your complaints or suggestions to Freedom Scientific would be very
> similar to mine, and we just keep trying to do the best we can with what we
> have available.
>
> By the way, what is your country? I'm from California, which is almost a
> country to itself in the U.S. political arena.
>
> Dave
> Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 (but without a WebCam) in and around my
> Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose, California
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 20:20
> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>
>
> Well I have a friend who uses windoweyes and when I told him what new
> version of jaws can do he acknowledged that it sounds pretty cool for
> instance the support for new office, vinux acknowledges to be worse than
> comercial speech stuff, I don`t know about nvda nor about serotek nor about
> support for mac so just trying to keep things in perspective. Since I am not
> american do I give a shitt about researchit features good for americans like
> american sports or zip codes bookshare no I do not but well that`s part of
> the product. As I tried to state bringing up valid and specific criticissm
> of freedom scientific is valid and let them know aobut the issues is good
> but I don`t expect all my complains to be answerewed because other people
> may have different one and they may be in general more important although
> all of us know that my points are the most important and always the right
> one haha.
> Zdenek
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:08 AM
> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>
>
>> Zdenek,
>>
>> No arguments (or b-ing) from me, and I won't even complain about your
>> complaint on my complaining. I sense your frustration with the Braille
>> display issue, and am not able to commiserate since I don't use one. But
>> I'll continue to bring JAWS' fallacies to the attention of Freedom
>> Scientific in the hope that they veer back toward the notion of "Job
>> Access" being the first two letters in their name.
>>
>> Otherwise, they should consider renaming the product "RIWS" to better
>> describe their present direction.
>>
>> I'll let Cy chime in on what that stands for.
>>
>> Dave
>> Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in and around my Audio Recording and
>> Mixing
>> Studios, San Jose, California
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 19:36
>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>
>>
>> dave,
>> and that's myh bitch sabout bitching. Stimulating bitching jaws is worse
>> than windoweyes in this respect explanation follows jaws is worse than mac
>> speech explanation follows
>> useless bitching jaws did not fix this bitching follows
>> there are many applications and many demands and it must be difficult to
>> try
>> to stay on top of everything which is in demand perhaps the future is not
>> in
>> assistive technology but in companikes like microsoft coming up with
>> speech
>> for their product but that's not happening so until then we have to rely
>> on
>> products like jaws with all their problems and don't think that other
>> products for nonvisually impraid don't have bugs and don't think that
>> other
>> companies don't sue how come that some speech software for blind does not
>> support focus braille display only because it is produced by jaws how come
>> that noone bittches about that?
>> food for thought?
>> Zdenek
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>
>>
>>> Zdenek
>>>
>>> ,
>>>
>>> And miss out on all the stimulating discussion? Never. Just because I
>>> decry
>>> the fallacies of JAWS and the apparent direction it's headed, I don't
>>> think
>>> any other screen reader is better, and choose to not sit down and learn a
>>> new one all over again. I switched from Window-Eyes to JAWS back around
>>> 1999
>>> or so. Too old now to change, and also too old to not exercise my right
>>> to
>>> complain once in a while.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in and around my Audio Recording and
>>> Mixing
>>> Studios, San Jose, California
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:24
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>
>>>
>>> well, I am not too sure if it is a good idea to critisize fs like this.
>>> Well
>>> if you do not like their product why do you use it? suggest something
>>> better
>>> say bye to the list and switch.
>>> Zdenek
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:10 PM
>>> Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>
>>>
>>>>I agree that fs should nail down the basic functionality before adding
>>>>the
>>>>gizzmoes. I don't need! The gizzmoes but I need jaws to to do what is
>>>>advertised and stable.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Bisset
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Alan Dicey
>>>> Sent: November 23, 2010 12:26 PM
>>>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>
>>>> Hello Cy, and Friends,
>>>> Well, I have an icon and short cut keys for my Random House Webster's
>>>> Unabridge Dictionary, the Wikipedia site, and use "Google Acssesible",
>>>> so
>>>> then you see I do not need the Research it feature of JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> And as some one else pointed out, I think it a fantastic idea that FS
>>>> develops specific JAWS programs, for example those using Braille
>>>> Displays,
>>>> Large Screen magnification programs, and thus keep JAWS as basic as
>>>> possible, therefore avoiding as many conflicts and problems having so
>>>> many
>>>> features in their package as they can.
>>>>
>>>> Just my 2 cents worth!
>>>>
>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>> Alan
>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:11 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I agree.
>>>>> Research It is not necessary but it sure is handy when one is in
>>>>> Outlook
>>>>> ant
>>>>> wants to look up something with the dictionary or Wiki Pedia.
>>>>> Cy, The Anasazi
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Yadiel Sotomayor
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:51 AM
>>>>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Like I have said in previous posts, I like research it. Specially the
>>>>> dictionary and wiki pedia modules. I really don't care much about
>>>>> sports
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> so I don't use them at all. But I must admit that the news modules is
>>>>> very
>>>>> useful and interesting (here in Puerto Rico the world news are almost
>>>>> non
>>>>> existing) and its good to be informed. However, like most of the peaple
>>>>> who
>>>>> use research it, it is fun, but not nesesary. Specially if the
>>>>> companies
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> universities don't create modules to make the information accessible
>>>>> with
>>>>> it. That is where the true power of research it really lies on creating
>>>>> modules to get certain kind of information accessible to jaws users.
>>>>> But
>>>>> no
>>>>> one creates them and so research it remains a fun feature, but nothing
>>>>> else.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Daniel McGee" <mc-g@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:18 PM
>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi to all on this topic. I agree ok at 1st I liked Research it and
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> listened to that podcast I thought that is a cool feature but I must
>>>>>> admit
>>>>>
>>>>>> I hardly even use the keystroke.
>>>>>> In my personal opinion, I am glad that I waited until jaws 12 came
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>> The virtual Ribbon was worth the waiting for! Now I can use office
>>>>>> 2007
>>>>>> with out avoiding it any more. I wonder why FS didn't fix that when it
>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>
>>>>>> came out. Hopefully it will continue to improve over the coming year.
>>>>>> I'll admit I couldn't see anything that was benifitual in jaws 11 and
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> the end of the day what's the point of research it if you don't do the
>>>>>> research your self! LOL
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 10:39 PM
>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Cy,
>>>>>>> Well Said!
>>>>>>> Research it?
>>>>>>> Research it?
>>>>>>> I ain't got no Research it!
>>>>>>> I ain't got to use no stinkin Research it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 4:52 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well fellas, I agree. Keep that old Windows 98 machine.
>>>>>>>> Things were a whole lot simpler back then because we were not trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> all things to all people. (LOLLOLLOL)
>>>>>>>> Just remember what happened to Julius Caesar when he tried to be all
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> to all people. (LOLLOLLOL)
>>>>>>>> Cy, The Anasazi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Farfar Carlson
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:38 PM
>>>>>>>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good point, however I would think that after all those years, and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>> that you've made no changes to the operating system nor JAWS on that
>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>> Gateway, might have some impact on its relative stability. Keeping a
>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>> unencumbered version of JAWS is the path to happiness. Don't let
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> computer go. And I see you still have Openbook 7. Keep that, too. I
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> several significant problems with OB9. They pulled that cookie out
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> oven too soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I continue to rant at how "bloated" is becoming our beloved JAWS,
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> the features, some of which I consider frivolous. Of course my
>>>>>>>> opinion
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> worth every penny or Kopeck or Guilder or Pound you might pay for
>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> therefore worth nothing to anyone who has a different opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've asked FS specifically to start branching out JAWS into three
>>>>>>>> basic
>>>>>>>> products (and price then appropriately) -- one for speech, one for
>>>>>>>> Braille,
>>>>>>>> and one for magnification. Then the code you pay for and receive is
>>>>>>>> optimized for your requirements and not hobbled to make it a
>>>>>>>> cure-all
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> all ailments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course each "module" should allow merging of the other module to
>>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>> dual capability.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And of course it was appreciated and considered as not being a
>>>>>>>> suggestion
>>>>>>>> that would result in any improvement. So there I go. Another opinion
>>>>>>>> worth
>>>>>>>> every penny.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan, thanks for providing me yet another soap box to step up onto.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>> Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
>>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:38
>>>>>>>> Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Dorothy, and List Members,
>>>>>>>> I did not want to give any of you fine folks the impression I am a
>>>>>>>> cave
>>>>>>>> man,
>>>>>>>> and just using a old Gateway machine which I purchased in early
>>>>>>>> 1999,
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> runs Windows 98 (first Edition) JAWS 5 and I think Open Book 6, but
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> have a Dell with XP-Home with JAWS 11 latest updates, and Open Book
>>>>>>>> 7.02.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The point here especially for Dave is that things have not gotten
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Blind computer users, Microsoft Windows users, nor JAWS users, they
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> gotten worse, as I have not had a single problem with my old
>>>>>>>> computer's
>>>>>>>> configuration for 11 years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can any say that about what they are using right now, with JAWS 12,
>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>> 7?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not I!!
>>>>>>>> LOL!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>>>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>>>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>>>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it was interesting, and I think another list member met him as well
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> cannot spell his name but something like John fiorant,no but I will
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> it he is retired and seems to have known everyone. the list can be
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>> stuffy at times, interesting seeing how many are using dell
>>>>>>>>> computers,
>>>>>>>>> having had dreadful service and a Drive failure plus fact when
>>>>>>>>> engineer
>>>>>>>>> came he put in another faulty western digital, in all I have had to
>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> local engineer a great deal to set it up again,then heard Dell made
>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>> profits and are pulling out of Ireland now the Irish economy is
>>>>>>>>> sinking, I
>>>>>>>>> have a good VIP friend in Herefordshire who once said tome 7, and a
>>>>>>>>> prior
>>>>>>>>> viglen XP desktop "pack them up and find a courier and send to me
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> will do a rebuild, well of the viglen he knew,the engineers were
>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> mess of things, re vintage computers, the maker of your windows 98,
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> have been good, my late friend who loved his windows 98 had his pc
>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>> made by a local small 2 man business.regarding booths current dell
>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>> sorry I have a broken shoulder and typing is very hard, I was
>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>> like some cars, they get a good name and on usa I think a song was
>>>>>>>>> sung
>>>>>>>>> about Chevrolet57----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:59 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Dave,
>>>>>>>>>> I apoligize if my message was not apropiate for the list, but I
>>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>> the person said he had been using JAWS since the 1980's, and when
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>> Ted Henter, in late 1990, almost 1991, he was still developing
>>>>>>>>>> JAWS.
>>>>>>>>>> It had not been released yet!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>>>>>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>>>>>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play
>>>>>>>>>> Chess!"
>>>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>>>>>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:41 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: I met Ted Henter in 1990
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's the context of your message? I find nothing to tell me why
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> posted
>>>>>>>>>>> this reply.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fill me in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>> Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
>>>>>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 06:43
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: I met Ted Henter in 1990
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I met Ted Henter in November 1990 when he came to a Blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Computer
>>>>>>>>>>> Users Group I had founded here in Miami.
>>>>>>>>>>> He basically came to say he was developing a Screen Reading
>>>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I must tell you, I did not take him very serious, nor did I think
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the nearly 30 attendents did
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I actually chuckled to myself of course, when he took the
>>>>>>>>>>> speakers
>>>>>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> started his presentation, "How does this guy think he can go up
>>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>>>> Digital Equipment Company, DEC Talk, the IBM Screen Reader, Giant
>>>>>>>>>>> corporations that could throw as much money into their Screen
>>>>>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>>>>>>> software programs as they cared to".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I had not a clue that he was on to something fantastic!
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember him as a very kind soft spoken, cordial gentleman.
>>>>>>>>>>> I am so glad it worked out for him, and us!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> Miami, Florida
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Dicey, President
>>>>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
>>>>>>>>>>> "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play
>>>>>>>>>>> Chess!"
>>>>>>>>>>> United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://AmericanBlindChess.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:17 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: new on the list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Bob!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Welcome to the list. Since the 1980s? What version of JAWS are
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>> using? Some of us are using JAWS 12 on various platforms and
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed
>>>>>>>>>>>> some vagaries in operation. What's your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>> Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
>>>>>>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "bob mathews" <bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 22:10
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: new on the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am new on the list, but have been a JAWS user since the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980tys...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Mathews
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Mathews Consulting
>>>>>>>>>>>> 866 6343773
>>>>>>>>>>>> bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> subject
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>>>>>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>>>>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>>>>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>>>>>>>>>>> Rather
>>>>>>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>>>>>>>>>> Rather
>>>>>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>>> line.
>>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>> line.
>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>>> or
>>>>> the
>>>>> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
>>>>> the
>>>>> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> JFW related links:
>>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
>>>>> line.
>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>>>>> or
>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> JFW related links:
>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>
>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> --
>>>> JFW related links:
>>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>>> JFW List instructions:
>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>>
>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$U«zVyÙbzK
>>>> hhTêZ?èm¶YÿÃ
>>>> ç?¢k ?éí?øor?¿IÊâ¦Ø§,f¢-)à-+-?Ûiÿùb²Û-.èÝ.Ê&þX¬¶)ß¡È"þÇ+S>h,¶©?+az7ar??bâ²Ø§²ÚîrبzÄè¦<-jg¬±¨ ¶yúèsØb²f¢-)à-+-±éÝjg¬±¨ ¶^ß·ª¹ë-~·z-+-²SàÂ+a¶°¢·nzË>±Êâm觶¬¹¸ÞrÙb?à+r¯zÉhq«^u«a¶Úÿ
>>>> 0~·z-+-²SàýªÜ?+Þ³øßÀ
>>>> mz¹Ú¶+Þj·!S÷¬-?µçZ¶m§ÿçÚv>nWo¢oÉdY¢µ¢?Ú0±ýµã?»öf"?ò¢èZ½æ§ÉÊ'qê籦èºÛazX¬¶s,¶·oz+ÞuúèsØ^-+-¢»a{²¶¥SËb±·¢z
>>> î?Ú'¢Úh²Ûazkh¶¥SËQjØ^Ê'µ§-¶¥SËhÂw«jØßÁ§fS{ ç¥SËl
>>>
>>> --
>>> JFW related links:
>>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>>> Scripting mailing list:
>>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>>> JFW List instructions:
>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>>> Alternative archives located at:
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>>
>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$U«zVyÙbzK
>>> hhTêZ?èm¶YÿÃ
>>> ç?¢k ?éí?øor?¿IÊâ¦Ø§,f¢-)à-+-?Ûiÿùb²Û-.èÝ.Ê&þX¬¶)ß¡È"þÇ+S>h,¶©?+az7ar??bâ²Ø§²ÚîrبzÄè¦<-jg¬±¨ ¶yúèsØb²f¢-)à-+-±éÝjg¬±¨ ¶^ß·ª¹ë-~·z-+-²SàÂ+a¶°¢·nzË>±Êâm觶¬¹¸ÞrÙb?à+r¯zÉhq«^u«a¶Úÿ
>>> 0~·z-+-²SàýªÜ?+Þ³øßÀ
>>> mz¹Ú¶+Þj·!S÷¬-?µçZ¶m§ÿçÚv>nWo¢oÉdY¢µ¢?Ú0±ýµã?»öf"?ò¢èZ½æ§ÉÊ'qê籦èºÛazX¬¶s,¶·oz+ÞuúèsØ^-+-¢»a{²¶¥SËb±·¢z
>> î?Ú'¢Úh²Ûazkh¶¥SËQjØ^Ê'µ§-¶¥SËhÂw«jØßÁ§fS{ ç¥SËl
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links:
>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>> Scripting mailing list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>> JFW List instructions:
>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>> contact the list owner at
>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$zyzT?¶Ã¢??rI¦,--?ÿ²..þ¶¡þS,?zr²²rz¦j±¶z¶v¢~-²N²rys²--±j±¶Â¹~-²Â¶¢z±m¶¹r?rzqu¶ÿ~-²ý?³Àz¶jS-µ¶§Ún¢¢?±ãö"¢½Éq±ºz¶¶zus-¢{¶S±z?¢²z¶Sjµ¶SÂjÁSS
>>
>
> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> Scripting mailing list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> Alternative archives located at:
> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
> way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
> list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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