RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

  • From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:53:11 -0500

Zdenek,

I loved reading your message, which I did three times. It's also going to
get us off track because you raise so many issues. Yes, FS is hardly the
only company to sue. Yes, there is a recognized problem concerning
screenreaders and braille displays. Complaining is inseparable from the
human condition, and so is complaining about complaining.

I do not agree with your previous message that FS should be immune from
criticism or that people who criticize should buy a competing product. JAWS
has serious flaws that have recurred through the versions, and FS has made
bad judgment calls. As Cy has said most effectively, JAWS should be about
job access first and foremost, not about gimmicks like the intriguing but
replicable Research It.

Now, if I've done a halfway decent job of acknowledging the many points made
in this very general thread, can we return to specific JAWS questions?

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Zdenek Vopat
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:37 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

dave, and that's myh bitch sabout bitching. Stimulating bitching jaws is
worse than windoweyes in this respect explanation follows jaws is worse than
mac speech explanation follows useless bitching jaws did not fix this
bitching follows there are many applications and many demands and it must be
difficult to try to stay on top of everything which is in demand perhaps the
future is not in assistive technology but in companikes like microsoft
coming up with speech for their product but that's not happening so until
then we have to rely on products like jaws with all their problems and don't
think that other products for nonvisually impraid don't have bugs and don't
think that other companies don't sue how come that some speech software for
blind does not support focus braille display only because it is produced by
jaws how come that noone bittches about that? food for thought? Zdenek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Zdenek

,

And miss out on all the stimulating discussion? Never. Just because I decry
the fallacies of JAWS and the apparent direction it's headed, I don't think
any other screen reader is better, and choose to not sit down and learn a
new one all over again. I switched from Window-Eyes to JAWS back around 1999
or so. Too old now to change, and also too old to not exercise my right to
complain once in a while.

Dave Composed on a Dell Latitude 630 in and around my Audio Recording and
Mixing Studios, San Jose, California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:24
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

well, I am not too sure if it is a good idea to critisize fs like this. Well
if you do not like their product why do you use it? suggest something better
say bye to the list and switch. Zdenek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:10 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

I agree that fs should nail down the basic functionality before adding the
gizzmoes. I don't need! The gizzmoes but I need jaws to to do what is
advertised and stable.

Tom Bisset

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Alan Dicey
Sent: November 23, 2010 12:26 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hello Cy, and Friends, Well, I have an icon and short cut keys for my Random
House Webster's Unabridge Dictionary, the Wikipedia site, and use "Google
Acssesible", so then you see I do not need the Research it feature of JAWS.

And as some one else pointed out, I think it a fantastic idea that FS
develops specific JAWS programs, for example those using Braille Displays,
Large Screen magnification programs, and thus keep JAWS as basic as
possible, therefore avoiding as many conflicts and problems having so many
features in their package as they can.

Just my 2 cents worth!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States
Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hi, I agree. Research It is not necessary but it sure is handy when one is
in Outlook ant wants to look up something with the dictionary or Wiki Pedia.
Cy, The Anasazi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Yadiel Sotomayor
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:51 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

?Like I have said in previous posts, I like research it. Specially the
dictionary and wiki pedia modules. I really don't care much about sports and

so I don't use them at all. But I must admit that the news modules is very
useful and interesting (here in Puerto Rico the world news are almost non
existing) and its good to be informed. However, like most of the peaple who
use research it, it is fun, but not nesesary. Specially if the companies and

universities don't create modules to make the information accessible with
it. That is where the true power of research it really lies on creating
modules to get certain kind of information accessible to jaws users. But no
one creates them and so research it remains a fun feature, but nothing else.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Daniel McGee" <mc-g@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:18 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Hi to all on this topic. I agree ok at 1st I liked Research it and when I
listened to that podcast I thought that is a cool feature but I must admit

I hardly even use the keystroke. In my personal opinion, I am glad that I
waited until jaws 12 came out. The virtual Ribbon was worth the waiting for!
Now I can use office 2007 with out avoiding it any more. I wonder why FS
didn't fix that when it 1st

came out. Hopefully it will continue to improve over the coming year. I'll
admit I couldn't see anything that was benifitual in jaws 11 and at the end
of the day what's the point of research it if you don't do the research your
self! LOL Thanks Daniel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 10:39 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Dear Cy, Well Said! Research it? Research it? I ain't got no Research it! I
ain't got to use no stinkin Research it!

LOL!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States
Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS getting better or worse!

Well fellas, I agree. Keep that old Windows 98 machine. Things were a whole
lot simpler back then because we were not trying to be all things to all
people. (LOLLOLLOL) Just remember what happened to Julius Caesar when he
tried to be all things to all people. (LOLLOLLOL) Cy, The Anasazi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:38 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS getting better or worse!

Alan,

Good point, however I would think that after all those years, and the fact
that you've made no changes to the operating system nor JAWS on that old
Gateway, might have some impact on its relative stability. Keeping a simple
unencumbered version of JAWS is the path to happiness. Don't let that
computer go. And I see you still have Openbook 7. Keep that, too. I found
several significant problems with OB9. They pulled that cookie out of the
oven too soon.

I continue to rant at how "bloated" is becoming our beloved JAWS, with all
the features, some of which I consider frivolous. Of course my opinion is
worth every penny or Kopeck or Guilder or Pound you might pay for it, and
therefore worth nothing to anyone who has a different opinion.

I've asked FS specifically to start branching out JAWS into three basic
products (and price then appropriately) -- one for speech, one for Braille,
and one for magnification. Then the code you pay for and receive is
optimized for your requirements and not hobbled to make it a cure-all for
all ailments.

Of course each "module" should allow merging of the other module to allow
dual capability.

And of course it was appreciated and considered as not being a suggestion
that would result in any improvement. So there I go. Another opinion worth
every penny.

Alan, thanks for providing me yet another soap box to step up onto.

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:38
Subject: JAWS getting better or worse!

Dear Dorothy, and List Members, I did not want to give any of you fine folks
the impression I am a cave man, and just using a old Gateway machine which I
purchased in early 1999, which runs Windows 98 (first Edition) JAWS 5 and I
think Open Book 6, but I also have a Dell with XP-Home with JAWS 11 latest
updates, and Open Book 7.02.

The point here especially for Dave is that things have not gotten better

for Blind computer users, Microsoft Windows users, nor JAWS users, they have
gotten worse, as I have not had a single problem with my old computer's
configuration for 11 years.

Can any say that about what they are using right now, with JAWS 12, Windows
7?

Not I!! LOL!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States
Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990

it was interesting, and I think another list member met him as well I cannot
spell his name but something like John fiorant,no but I will find it he is
retired and seems to have known everyone. the list can be a bit stuffy at
times, interesting seeing how many are using dell computers, having had
dreadful service and a Drive failure plus fact when engineer came he put in
another faulty western digital, in all I have had to pay

a local engineer a great deal to set it up again,then heard Dell made big
profits and are pulling out of Ireland now the Irish economy is sinking, I
have a good VIP friend in Herefordshire who once said tome 7, and a prior
viglen XP desktop "pack them up and find a courier and send to me and I will
do a rebuild, well of the viglen he knew,the engineers were making

a mess of things, re vintage computers, the maker of your windows 98, must
have been good, my late friend who loved his windows 98 had his pc custom
made by a local small 2 man business.regarding booths current dell desktop
sorry I have a broken shoulder and typing is very hard, I was thinking like
some cars, they get a good name and on usa I think a song was sung about
Chevrolet57----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:59 PM
Subject: Hello Dave I met Ted Henter in 1990

Hello Dave, I apoligize if my message was not apropiate for the list, but I
thought the person said he had been using JAWS since the 1980's, and when I
met Ted Henter, in late 1990, almost 1991, he was still developing JAWS. It
had not been released yet!

Thank you!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States
Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: I met Ted Henter in 1990

Alan,

What's the context of your message? I find nothing to tell me why you posted
this reply.

Fill me in.

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 06:43
Subject: I met Ted Henter in 1990

Dear Friends, Well, I met Ted Henter in November 1990 when he came to a
Blind Computer Users Group I had founded here in Miami. He basically came to
say he was developing a Screen Reading software.

I must tell you, I did not take him very serious, nor did I think many of
the nearly 30 attendents did

I actually chuckled to myself of course, when he took the speakers stand and
started his presentation, "How does this guy think he can go up against
Digital Equipment Company, DEC Talk, the IBM Screen Reader, Giant
corporations that could throw as much money into their Screen reading
software programs as they cared to".

I had not a clue that he was on to something fantastic! I remember him as a
very kind soft spoken, cordial gentleman. I am so glad it worked out for
him, and us!

With Best Regards, Alan Miami, Florida Alan Dicey, President United States
Braille Chess Association - USBCA "Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People,
Can, and Do, Play Chess!" United States Braille Chess Association Home Page:
http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: new on the list

Hello Bob!

Welcome to the list. Since the 1980s? What version of JAWS are you currently
using? Some of us are using JAWS 12 on various platforms and have noticed
some vagaries in operation. What's your experience?

Dave Composed in the Audio Recording and Mixing Studios, San Jose,
California

----- Original Message -----
From: "bob mathews" <bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 22:10
Subject: new on the list

Hi all, I am new on the list, but have been a JAWS user since the 1980tys...

Bob Mathews Bob Mathews Consulting
866 6343773
bmathews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
Scripting mailing list: 
http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to 
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
Alternative archives located at: 
http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html

If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the 
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the 
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other related posts: