Really do think it is just a web page thing, not JAWS. Peter -------------------------------------------------- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:41 PM To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
That's more or less what I mean, except for one thing. I repeat, I have no idea what it means to describe a Web page as having a point of focus upon the loading of the page. I used to see a Web page clearly, and I know that no matter whether a Web page had edit fields or not or how important theywere to the function of the page, there wasn't anything I could discern as a "focus." The page simply appeared on the screen. And if I saw an edit fieldand wanted to type something in it, I simply did. But it was not as if something in my browser was already focused somewhere. It wasn't . There isn't any such thing, so far as I know. I think this is a lot more to do with what happens in the screen reader when the page loads. Not somethinginherent that anyone at all would be aware of, including the page designer. See what 'm saying? I don't feel as if we're talking on the same terms, forsome reason. Sorry. desingers.describve----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Harmon" <rharmon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit field such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field. I do believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS doing at all.Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at all.Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is. Rick----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode But Peter, I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader, there isnot a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a cursor of some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the person sees all of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads. Or, if they want to use an edit field, they see it and then put the mouse pointer on it. They aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is hijacked when a page loads and takes us straight to an edit field. So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws focus?Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the pageas it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I mean? designes JasewJaww----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens with some sites and not with others.I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps to asthe page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use the quick navigation keys. Peter -------------------------------------------------- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms modeHi Peter and all, It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not sophisticated enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first edit field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't happen with every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far from the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of thearticle pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can hearthe headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually wish touse the global search function to look for something I don't know where tofind in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I get to the search form. But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately, bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it didn't happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway. If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to confirm or preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested to hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me at this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like getting involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or defending them, either. Thanks very much. From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms modeYeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms mode itcauses you to press submit or something instead. As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on automatically. Peter -------------------------------------------------- From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms modeI like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where you land on the search edit field after the site has loaded.Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I wouldprobably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some habits are so hard to break or change. Sincerely: Dave Durber -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfwIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact thelist owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfwIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact thelist owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfwIf you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx