Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
- From: "Bruce Toews" <Bruce@xxxxxxxx>
- To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:32:03 -0500
Joel, if you're going to correct the grammar of everyone on every list
of which you are a part, then you will be here for eternity. This is a
JAWS list, not a grammar list.
Bruce
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:28:43 -0700, "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
said:
> P.S. The word that "situation" is standing in for in the original is
> actually "predicament," and it's not strange to say you can sympathize
> with
> someone's predicament, because there's an implication in "predicament"
> that
> someone's in a difficult position that almost certainly involves having
> bad
> feelings about it, and that those feelings are part of the predicament as
> they make it difficult to decide what to do. Hope that's clear? So that
> works, sympathizing with the predicament, but it's the biggest stretch
> that
> can be made and gotten away with.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>
> We can be empathetic with someone, meaning able to imaginatively share
> their
> feelings. But we can only say we're sympathetic to their plight, or more
> properly, to their consternation (provide preferred synonym if desired)
> *about* their plight. The plight is the literal situation, however
> harrowing
> it may be. You can't sympathize with a situation.
>
> Now, I know that people speak all kinds of ways and however they do, they
> feel it works for them. So, each to his or her own. Just saying how the
> mechanism actually goes together according to the assembly instructions.
> :-)
> From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>
> I am empathetic to your plight. I frequently have the same trouble here.
> I'm embarrassed to admit I use the "grammar and spelling checker". Oh
> well,
> this, too, shall pass.
>
> Have a great day.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> Of Peter Holdstock
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:21 AM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
> Yes a bit scary to say my first language is English and I have an A-Level
> in
>
> it. Seem to be having a problem lately where I type phonetically even
> though
>
> I know how to spell. What my brain thinks seems to be different to what
> my
> fingers do.
>
> Peter
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:44 PM
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
> > Peter:
> >
> > Whether not "whever". (LOL)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> > Of Peter Holdstock
> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:19 AM
> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >
> > I think those people who don't understand the problem with JAWS going
> > straight in to forms mode are missing the point.
> >
> > A sighted user, despite being placed in the edit field can still look
> > around
> >
> > the web page for the content they need.
> >
> > A JAWS user uses quick navigation keys to look around the site as a
> > sighted
> > person would. The quick navigation keys do not work whilst in forms mode
> > so
> > therefore you cannot quickly move around the site without having to go out
> > of forms mode first.
> >
> > The most sensible place to begin on a page is at the top then the user can
> > decide where they want to go.
> >
> > Also, in Google, yes it is safe to assume you are in the edit field, but
> > not
> >
> > all websites put you in the search box, but some put you in the user id
> > box,
> >
> > and others put you straight in to the password field if the user box is
> > already inputted.
> >
> > Many edit fields do not have sufficient labels attached to them for you to
> > know what they are wanting you to input, and so it can be difficult to
> > know
> > whever you need to input the user id, password, search term or other
> > information (although I realise this is for web developers to get in to
> > the
> > habit of doing putting better labels on forms).-------------------------
> >
> > How many times have you gone to use quick navigation not realising that
> > JAWS
> >
> > has gone in to auto forms mode and ended up entering text instead.
> >
> > It has been pointed out that you can turn autoforms mode off. But I love
> > autoforms, and just because I don't want to be put straight in to an edit
> > fieold, doesn't mean I don't want to use auto forms mode for navigation.
> >
> > I'm happy to be placed at the first edit box on a site loading, but I
> > think
> > on that one occasion, JAWS shouldn't put you in forms mode, but perhaps
> > give
> >
> > you the usual message about pressing enter to go in to forms
> > mode.-------------------------
> >
> > Peter
> > From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:27 PM
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >
> >> But google chooses to put your cursor on the search edit box and that is
> >> it. If you have a problem with that then complain to google.
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom Bissett
> >> BMO Financial Group
> >> Technology and Operations
> >> Integrated Client Solutions
> >> Tel: (416) 549-6514
> >> E-Mail tom.bissett@xxxxxxx
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of DJ
> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:43 PM
> >> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>
> >> I disagree. The first thing I do at Google isn't always type in the
> >> edit box. I sometimes go to the Maps link, or some other area. So
> >> searching isn't the only thing on people's minds when they visit Google.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Rick Harmon
> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:28 PM
> >> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>
> >> No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit
> >> field such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field.
> >> I do believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS
> >> doing at all.
> >>
> >> Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at
> >> all.
> >>
> >> Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM
> >> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>
> >>
> >> But Peter,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.
> >> When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader,
> >> there is not a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a
> >> cursor of some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the
> >> person sees all of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads.
> >> Or, if they want to use an edit field, they see it and then put the
> >> mouse pointer on it. They aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is
> >> hijacked when a page loads and takes us straight to an edit field.
> >>
> >> So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something
> >> into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws
> >> focus?
> >> Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the
> >> page as it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I
> >> mean?
> >> designes JasewJaww
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM
> >> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a
> >> field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens
> >> with
> >> some sites and not with others.
> >>
> >> I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps
> >> to as
> >> the page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use
> >> the
> >> quick navigation keys.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>
> >>> Hi Peter and all,
> >>>
> >>> It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is
> >>> happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not
> >>> sophisticated
> >>> enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first
> >> edit
> >>> field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't
> >> happen
> >>> with
> >>> every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far
> >>> from
> >>> the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of the
> >>> article pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can
> >> hear
> >>> the headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually
> >> wish
> >>> to
> >>> use the global search function to look for something I don't know
> >> where to
> >>> find in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I
> >> get
> >>> to
> >>> the search form.
> >>>
> >>> But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately,
> >>> bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back
> >>> upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it
> >>> didn't
> >>> happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got
> >>> everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to
> >> confirm
> >>> or
> >>> preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested
> >> to
> >>> hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me
> >> at
> >>> this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like
> >>> getting
> >>> involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or
> >>> defending them, either.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks very much.
> >>> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms
> >> mode it
> >>> causes you to press submit or something instead.
> >>>
> >>> As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on
> >> automatically.
> >>>
> >>> Peter
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------
> >>> From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM
> >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> >>>
> >>>> I like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where
> >> you
> >>>> land
> >>>> on the search edit field after the site has loaded.
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I
> >> would
> >>>> probably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some
> >> habits
> >>>> are
> >>>> so hard to break or change.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave Durber
> >>>>
> >>>> --
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--
Bruce Toews
dogriver@xxxxxxxx
--
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Other related posts:
