Re: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
- From: "Greg Epley" <gregepley@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 08:24:11 -0500
a. Installing, as in running the setup and getting MM5 installed is not the
issue.
b. You cannot just keep hitting "Next" on any installer or configuration
wizard if there is anything you want to change. I can't say "Next" when I
need to select a different option button in a cluster and JAWS crashes for
whatever reason it did. You are welcome to assume my system is unstable,
but I'm telling you it isn't and I should know, I've been messing with
computers since 1982. Sure there are others who have done it longer, but my
lengthy experience has to count for something whether you agree with it or
not.
c. If the companies making software were doing their job right, they could
eliminate at least 90% of the problems users experience. I've also been
developing software for many years and find it odd that in all that time
I've never been bombarded with support calls, and I've had all levels of
users on my software so there's no point there to argue.
d. It has been recommended to me, and I have to go on that until I have
experience to the contrary, that MSN Messenger 5 isn't the best choice for
Windows XP. In my original post on this topic I mentioned in the second
paragraph what exact version of JAWS I was using and what OS - Windows XP.
e. Just because some users don't experience a problem can be due to a lot of
things, as I have learned over the years of dealing with users problems.
Experienced users do have problems from time to time too, and often are so
close to the problem that they can't see other avenues of resolution. It is
not easy for me to ask for help, but I know when to do that rather than
continue to bang my head against a wall. Sometimes intelligence is knowing
when to admit failure and ask for help.
I hope I've made myself clear. This is not being touchy or sensitive, but
when people assume they know or have all the right answers it needs to be
pointed out that their are flaws in their assumptions. Also, the problem
has been resolved to my satisfaction, and I posted this on the list as soon
as possible after sufficient testing.
-Greg Epley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Skarstad" <toonhead5@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
> why are you guys having such a hard time? msn 5.0 has a simple instalation
> program. you just keep hitting the next button until it installs. not sure
> where the difficulties lie.
>
>
>
> At 11:06 AM 4/24/2004, you wrote:
> >To avoid the setting up of an hot mail account I finally rsorted to
having a
> >sighted person install MSN messenger5.0, and It has worked fine since
that
> >time. I was unable to install it successfully witha screen reader.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Greg Epley" <gregepley@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 11:27 AM
> >Subject: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > After reading recently that MSN Messenger was a good accessible
messaging
> > > client for Windows XP, I downloaded the XP version from the JFWLite
> >Programs
> > > page, along with the scripts.
> > >
> > > I am running JAWS 5.00.844 on Windows XP Home with all the critical
> >updates
> > > and SP1 installed, and experiencing no other system problems prior to
this
> > > install of MSN Messenger 5.0.
> > >
> > > I installed the scripts and then ran the MSN Messenger 5 setup
program.
> > > Everything went fine with that.
> > >
> > > After MSN Messenger was able to start, I went to the Sign In and began
the
> > > passport account setup.
> > >
> > > From reading the wizard pages, it sounded like I could register my
regular
> > > ISP email account rather than setting up a Hotmail account.
> > >
> > > While trying to select a different radio button in the cluster on one
of
> >the
> > > wizard pages to let me do this, I heard the Windows Default beep sound
and
> > > JAWS went mute. I've had this happen before and after starting
Narrator,
> > > discovered that JAWS had an application error with the Send/Don't Send
> > > buttons.
> > >
> > > I gracefully shut down the MSN Messenger wizard and was finally able
to
> >get
> > > the system shut down.
> > >
> > > At restart JAWS started as usual. I again tried to go through the
wizard
> > > and JAWS crashed again.
> > >
> > > I decided on the next restart to disable JAWS st startup and did so,
then
> >I
> > > launched Narrator. I began having some problems getting the wizard to
> >read
> > > well with Narrator and tried to start JAWS with my hotkey.
> > >
> > > JAWS said nothing. It was running, but a sighted person helped me
verify
> > > that the menus in JAWS read Options, Utilities, Help - the Language
menu
> >was
> > > nonexistent and JAWS was frozen.
> > >
> > > I restarted the system and JAWS didn't try to start at startup as it
had
> > > been configured. I tried my hotkey and JAWS tried to load but again
was
> > > missing the Language menu. There was no speech on either version.
> > >
> > > After another restart I tried running a repair on JAWS from
Installation
> > > Maintenance. Still no improvement, although I was able to tell JAWS 5
to
> > > start automatically at Windows startup.
> > >
> > > After restart JAWS began speaking again. I use a SAPI 4 engine so I
> > > unloaded JAWS and tried to launch it not as a service so I could use
the
> > > SAPI 4 detect. JAWS spoke, but when I tried to use SAPI 4 detect it
> >froze.
> > >
> > > I restarted and went into Add/Remove Programs to remove MSN Messenger,
and
> > > successfully removed it. I then restarted and ran Disk Cleanup,
checking
> >to
> > > clean up any items that I thought might be causing Windows to run some
> > > application in the temporary files or other areas that might be
> >interfering.
> > > That was also successful.
> > >
> > > After another restart, I tried to again run JAWS not as a service and
use
> > > SAPI 4 detect. It froze again. I haven't tried JAWS 4.51 again at
this
> > > point.
> > >
> > > I thought I'd write here first and see if anyone had any suggestions
at
> >this
> > > point, because I know FS isn't going to respond to me likely before
> >Tuesday
> > > or Wednesday, and I can't stand this Elloquence voice until then.
> > >
> > > My options at this point are to attempt to remove and delete JAWS 5
> > > completely from the hard drive, then try to reinstall it and hope I
can
> >run
> > > it not as a service long enough to get my SAPI 4 engine detected. I
had
> >no
> > > problems with this before, but for whatever reason it doesn't like
> >something
> > > in my system now and I can't pin down what could be interfering. I
have
> > > installed a number of applications since that time, but since I wasn't
> > > having any problems with unloading and restarting JAWS 5 or JAWS 4.51
> >until
> > > after this MSN Messenger mess, I have to assume that did something to
my
> > > system, and so I don't see where reinstalling JAWS is going to fix it.
> > >
> > > My other option is to back things up and reinstall my whole system and
> >never
> > > try to install MSN Messenger (any version). Once a software spooks me
> >like
> > > this during install, I'm obviously very hesistant to trust it in the
> >future.
> > > I generally have a very stable system and software that causes these
kinds
> > > of problems, I don't care how well they work for others, gets a bad
rating
> > > in my book.
> > >
> > > I can understand if most people here haven't had problems, but
obviously
> >MSN
> > > Messenger started some progression of events since I hadn't been
having
> >any
> > > problems until then.
> > >
> > > I'll see what responses I get here, and depending on the response I'll
try
> > > and email to FS support sometime tomorrow.
> > > -Greg Epley
> > >
> > >
> > >
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