All had to do with freedom being in trouble or freedom not supporting things. It's in interesting debate I suppose but that's all it is. It doesn't settle jaws problems. I think it needs to be between those interested only. I am not the moderator, but this debate is cluttering up stuff and not settling anything. I'll shut up here, but I think you need to take it off the list and do it privately. I'm gone. Jim -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx