Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware

  • From: "Judith Bron" <jbron@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:28:00 -0400

Thanks for supporting the majority Jean, I don't think an "Armchair
quarterback" will get very far on Sunday.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware


> And why should this thread be stopped? It is an intelligent discussion
about
> the very company this list was created to discuss.
>
>
>
> Thanks; Gene
>
> On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wil James" <wil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:28 PM
> Subject: RE: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
>
>
> > Who *is* the moderator anyway?  If there was one present, you can bet
this
> > thread would have been stopped.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------
> > Do you want to know about new products when they come out? Do you have a
> > product the blind community would benefit from? Please send a blank
> > message
> > to
> > new-products-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > -------------------
> > E-mail/MSN:
> > wil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Skype:
> > wiljames
> > I C Q:
> > 95379501
> > My blog:
> > http://wil.wilanddenise.com
> > --------------------
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
> > Of Chris Skarstad
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:57 PM
> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >
> > yeah and since when did they make GB the moderator?
> > Anyways, I do think FS is shooting themselves in the foot. Big time.
> >
> >
> > At 08:33 PM 6/15/2005, you wrote:
> >>Pardon me, but this is JFW related.  Not from an everyday use, but it
> >>is JFW related.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--------------------
> >>Do you want to know about new products when they come out? Do you have
> >>a product the blind community would benefit from? Please send a blank
> >>message to new-products-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>-------------------
> >>E-mail/MSN:
> >>wil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Skype:
> >>wiljames
> >>I C Q:
> >>95379501
> >>My blog:
> >>http://wil.wilanddenise.com
> >>--------------------
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>Behalf Of G B
> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:16 PM
> >>To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: RE: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >>
> >>I think we heard enough of this on this list have your conversations =
> >>between yourselves.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
> >>Behalf Of Gene
> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 17:47
> >>To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >>
> >>I agree, but that still doesn't change the fact that like a lot of =
> >>software,
> >>
> >>Jaws will soon be to advanced to run on the older systems. That isn't =
> >>their=20 fault or yours, it's just the way the computer world is. I can
> >>remember = many
> >>
> >>people having a fit when companies started dropping DOS versions of =
> >>their=20 software for the windows versions. They had to make a choice
> >>of either=20 upgrading to windows or using older versions of their
> >>favorite software.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Thanks; Gene
> >>
> >>On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----=20
> >>From: "RJ" <rjf1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:41 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >>
> >>
> >> > Jim,\
> >> >
> >> > No argument from me. The only problem I have is they ask and demand
> >> > =
> >>their
> >> > money up front. Where in the literature of FS does it say they were
> >> > =
> >>not
> >> > going to support the older systems? I sure didn't see it, did you?
> >> > RJ
> >> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> > From: "Gene" <guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:15 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I don't mean to be argumentative but it isn't their fault that
> >> >> people
> >> > don't
> >> >> upgrade operating systems. There was obviously a choice to be made
> >> >> =
> >>about
> >> >> which way to go. Support older O. S. versions or the current and =
> >>future
> >> >> ones. If you owned the company you'd make the same choice they did.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks; Gene
> >> >>
> >> >> On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> >> From: "RJ" <rjf1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:12 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > You could be right, but they shouldn't have taken my money, if
> >> >> > they weren't going to support my system.
> >> >> > RJ
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> >> > From: "Gene" <guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:06 PM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> One reason for that could be the fact that Microsoft it self =
> >>either=20
> >> >> >> has
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> is about to discontinue support for that O. S.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks; Gene
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> >> >> From: "RJ" <rjf1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:07 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > It appears as FS couldn't care less about the blind consumers.
> >> >> >> > =
> >>It is
> >> >> >> > profit
> >> >> >> > and profit only they seem to care about. The last two upgrades
> >> >> >> > =
> >>were=20
> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> > disaster for win 98 c users in my opinion.
> >> >> >> > RJ
> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> >> >> > From: "Gene" <guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> >    Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 7:55 PM
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> No company I know of supports every piece of hardware that =
> >>comes
> >> > out.
> >> >> > If
> >> >> >> > FS
> >> >> >> >> has a product they think is comparable to the hardware in =
> >>question
> >> >> >> >> then
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> course they aren't going to support something built by the
> >> >> >> >> competition.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Thanks; Gene
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On MSN and Yahoo - guystevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> >> >> >> From: "Wil James" <wil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 7:48 PM
> >> >> >> >> Subject: Freedom Scientific's Lack of Support for Hardware
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > This makes no sense to me in any way, shape, fashion, or =
> >>form.
> >> > Let
> >> >> > me
> >> >> >> >> > set up the context for you.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Someone wrote on the GW Micro list about the Braille Sense,
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>the
> >> >> > newesst
> >> >> >> >> > PDA from GW Micro, inquiring about a driver for JAWS to
> >> >> >> >> > work =
> >>with
> >> >> >> >> > its
> >> >> >> >> > braille display.  I was shocked to see the below response.
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>This
> >> > is
> >> >> >> >> > directly from Doug Geoffray.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Begin Quote
> >> >> >> >> > Hello Robert,
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I'm very glad you asked this question.  This has generated
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>great
> >> >> >> >> > frustration for me.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > With Window-Eyes, our philosophy is to support as many
> >> > synthesizers
> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > as
> >> >> >> >> > many braille displays as possible.  Even if this means we =
> >>need to
> >> >> >> >> > support
> >> >> >> >> > products from competing companies.  It just seems so clear
> >> >> >> >> > in =
> >>my
> >> >> >> >> > mind
> >> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> >> > this is the only approach.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > However, Freedom Scientific obviously doesn't feel as I do
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>about
> >> >> >> >> > this.  HIMS had contacted Freedom Scientific several months
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>ago
> >> >> >> >> > regarding
> >> >> >> >> > the ability to create a JAWS driver for the Braille Sense.
> >> > Freedom
> >> >> >> >> > Scientific never responded.   Thinking I had a better=20
> >> >> >> >> > relationship
> >> >> > with
> >> >> >> >> > Freedom, I decided to send an email to Eric Damery directly
> >> >> >> >> > regarding this.  Like HIMS, I never got a response.  A
> >> >> >> >> > couple weeks ago =
> >>I
> >> > saw
> >> >> >> >> > Eric
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > person and asked him about this...  He said he would get
> >> >> >> >> > back =
> >>
> >> >> >> >> > with
> >> >> >> >> > me
> >> >> >> >> > by
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > the end of the week with what I needed.  Well, I did hear =
> >>back in
> >> >> > email
> >> >> >> >> > at
> >> >> >> >> > the end of the week but it wasn't what I needed.  Let me =
> >>quote
> >> >> >> >> > Eric's
> >> >> >> >> > official response:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > "At this time, we don't feel it makes good business sense
> >> >> >> >> > for Freedom Scientific to work with HIMS or their
> >> >> >> >> > Distributors to provide =
> >>the
> >> >> >> >> > necessary
> >> >> >> >> > specification or support the development of a driver to be
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>used=20
> >> >> >> >> > by
> >> >> > JAWS
> >> >> >> >> > for
> >> >> >> >> > Windows."
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > This just blew me away.  Since the beginning of Freedom=20
> >> >> >> >> > Scientific
> >> >> > all
> >> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > have heard is that this one stop shopping idea is best for
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>the
> >> >> >> >> > user.  Creating one company that handles all products for
> >> >> >> >> > all
> >> > blind
> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > visually impaired users is only going to help the industry
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>and of
> >> >> >> >> > course
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > blind people.  Well, all I have seen are prices going up
> >> >> >> >> > and =
> >>fear
> >> > of
> >> >> >> >> > competition and anything that can be done to squash =
> >>competition
> >> > even
> >> >> > if
> >> >> >> >> > that means not giving existing and future JAWS users access
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>to=20
> >> >> >> >> > all
> >> >> >> >> > their
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > options.  Options such as the Braille Sense.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Keep in mind that with Window-Eyes we, meaning GW Micro, =
> >>create
> >> > all
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > synthesizer and braille drivers ourselves.  With JAWS,
> >> >> >> >> > the=20 drivers
> >> >> > are
> >> >> >> >> > not
> >> >> >> >> > written by Freedom Scientific but usually the manufacturer
> >> >> >> >> > of =
> >>the
> >> >> >> >> > device.  So for the Braille Sense, we are not asking
> >> >> >> >> > Freedom
> >> >> > Scientific
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > create the driver, we are asking for the development kit
> >> >> >> >> > they already have which documents how the driver should be
> >> >> >> >> > written to interface =
> >>
> >> >> >> >> > into
> >> >> >> >> > JAWS.  Bottom line, there is no extra work on Freedom's
> >> >> >> >> > part =
> >>to
> >> >> > create
> >> >> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> >> > driver.  We will do that.  But they refuse to give us
> >> >> >> >> > the=20 existing necessary information simply because it
> >> >> >> >> > competes with their
> >> > PACMate
> >> >> >> >> > which
> >> >> >> >> > has been struggling.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > My frustration is that Freedom Scientific has grown so big
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>and
> >> >> > arrogant
> >> >> >> >> > that they can turn their back on blind users simply for a =
> >>buck.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > So Robert, to answer your question specifically.  We would
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>love=20
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > create a
> >> >> >> >> > JAWS driver for the Braille Sense.  But Freedom Scientific
> >> >> >> >> > is
> >> > tieing
> >> >> >> >> > our
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > hands because they feel threatened by the Braille Sense.
> >> >> >> >> > End Quote
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> > This message was written and composed on the Pac mate.
> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> > Visit my blog at
> >> >> >> >> > http://wil.wilanddenise.com
> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
> >> >> >> >> > the=20 subject line.
> >> >> >> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> >> >> >> >> > =
> >>the
> >> >> >> >> > list,
> >> >> >> >> > or
> >> >> >> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> >> > Rather
> >> >> >> >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the =
> >>subject
> >> >> >> > line.
> >> >> >> >> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> > list,
> >> >> > or
> >> >> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. =
> >>Rather
> >> >> >> > contact
> >> >> >> > the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --
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> >>subject
> >> >> >> > line.
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> >> >> >> >
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> >>Rather
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> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
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> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >
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> >> >=20
> >>
> >>
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