Re: Coding google docs
- From: "Negoslav Sabev" <negi4a@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:08:29 +0300
Good, but what will happen if they change the look or the structure of the site
after few months and once again after few more. This good man will stay for
hours to code something that will change after while and will need to do this
again for another set of hours.
Since jaws stays for job access with speech my vote is for MS Access, because
it's a work app and some people need it for a living . But maybe it's better FS
to do their job. Anyway, I believe that work is more important than
entertaining, because on the first place it gives you money to pay for it,,
smile.
Negoslav
----- Original Message -----
From: John Martyn
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:34 AM
Subject: Coding google docs
No, everything you are saying is important to know. For the future of google
docs it is important to know what direction things are heading in, how fast
they do it, and whether they do anything at all. We don't know what side will
win. This just argues that the use of google docs by colleges is unfair. I
don't know if google would even do anything. Given that they somewhat make
things accessible, what chances are that they make this possible. Would freedom
scientific listen if we put this task on them?
----- Original Message -----
From: Marquette, Ed
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Thanks for sharing this. I was unaware that NFB had taken on Google Docs
indirectly by taking on the universities that apparently mandate it. I think
that may have been the same strategy employed against the Kindle. There some
progress was made -- though much slower than would have been ideal.
Nevertheless, YEA for the NFB!
I reviewed the video which purports to demonstrate the challenges of using
Google Docs with a screen reader. The demonstration uses JAWS 12. It would
have been a little more effective had the demonstration pointed out that the
help section entitled "Access with a Screen Reader" actually gives bogus
instructions. The demonstrator merely mentions that, by pressing Alt, the user
is taken to the browser menu and not the applications menu. The "help" section
specifically warns against that and encourages the user to hit "ESCAPE" to
access he menus. The problem is that the ESCAPE key, in fact, does not take
the user to any menus. As it stands, the video could be criticized because the
person doing the demonstration apparently didn't read the "access with a screen
reader" text in the help section. Of course, I may be too critical. After
all, this presumably wasn't produced as an exhibit for a jury.
It is one thing to offer up an inaccessible application. It is something
else (and much worse) to offer up an application which suggests it may be
accessible, but it is not.
Who knows? Perhaps officials at New York University and Northwestern, the
universities taken on by the NFB, actually took accessibility into account
and, seeing a whole section in the help system devoted to access using a screen
reader, concluded, erroneously, that Google Docs was accessible.
You are all probably sick of hearing me go on and on about Google and
Google Docs. I'll shut up now.
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Charles
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:34 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi,
In a news release dated 3/15/2011 the NFB has filed a complaint against
two Universities namely NEW York University and Northwestern University
concerning their adopting of software that is not accessible to the blind.
In their request to investigate made to the department of Justice Civil
Rights Department the NFB states the adopting of Google apps for education
which includes Google docs, g mail, etc;, discriminates against blind staff
and students.
A full copy of the news release can be found at: www.nfb.org
Charles
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:30 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
OK.
This "coding for an application" raises a good point. Indeed, Internet
Explorer, FireFox, and the like are applications; however, Websites have
progressed well beyond what we think of as traditional Websites.
More and more, I'm seeing applications migrate away from the
client/server model, where something is installed on a local PC, to Web-based
applications, where the application resides remotely and is only accessed
through the browser.
For instance, I use a Web application at my office which is a pretty
sophisticated document management system.
By that, I mean only a shadow of a Microsoft Office document resides on
the local drive (and only for emergency back-up purposes). The real files are
not even located on a remote server that our firm owns. Instead, they reside
somewhere in a mountain cave in Utah.
When I want to access, search for, or save a document, Internet Explorer
runs a Web application that looks up or stores the document with a whole range
of information (e.g., author, creation date, last edit date, client number,
matter number, document name, type of law, type of document, and selected key
words.). The look-up operates much like a Google search operates or, in the
alternative, by field look-up.
There are competitive applications, but they all operate on the
client/server model.
The point is that more and more of these Web applications are appearing.
Fortunately, the one referenced above is pretty well behaved, particularly with
JAWS and its quick keys, or whatever they are called.
It does not, however, respond all that well to scripts. That, however,
may be my ineptitude as a script writer, though the scripts I wrote were hardly
more than macros, i.e., a series of keystrokes.
I would certainly like to see an accomplished script writer tackle, or
try to tackle, a Web application of general applicability.
I cannot think of an application with more general applicability than
Google Docs, but I do have my own selfish objectives that, in the interest of
full disclosure, I need to reveal. Still, a free application that can be
shared in a collaborative way with power that approaches Microsoft Office would
be pretty important to lots of people.
Google Docs is free. Microsoft Office doesn't come cheap.
Google Docs, however, may simply be too great a challenge. After all,
all the screen reader people seem to have given up on it.
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bob W
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:48 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Peter, here's my thinking and I hope others will correct me if I'm
wrong.
A website is not an application.
the applications involved would be your browser--i.e. or firefox, or
chrome.
For that matter, google docs would not be an application either.
Just my thoughts.
Bob
A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that
thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Holdstock
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi, for many blind people dating is quite difficult and many dating
websites don’t seem too accessible, and I have seen a few posts from people
trying to get various websites working. I’d be very grateful if the website
www.plentyoffish.com was made accessible in some way. It is pretty accessible
at the mom ent so shouldn’t require too much work, but there are a
lot of extra links and information you have to try and bypass to get to the
useful stuff.
I may be the only one who wants that website accessible, but I hope
not and I think lots would benefit from a fully accessible dating site where
it’s not just disabled people.
Peter
Thanks.
Peter
From: John Martyn
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:33 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; jaws-users-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi folks,
As my 32nd birthday approaches, I think I am going to make a habit of
picking one new application per year to make jaws accessible. Picking Rhapsody
was not an easy task, but it taught me many things about an application that
seems next to impossible to make behave. I am taking off this summer from
school and will have the time to code a new application. Rhapsody Blind was a
test to see if I could pull it off, and it worked. I selfishly chose the first
one, now I'm looking for the popular vote on what you might want. I probably
won't start until this semester is over at the end of May, so this gives plenty
of time to decide. It would be a good idea to chat among each other and find
out what is needed or just plain want for entertainment purposes. So, let's
open up the floor and hear some suggestions.
Thanks,
John Martyn
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