Just a couple of comments: 1. I believe one of FS leading tech support personnel is subscribed to this list, and posts occasionally. I also thought I'd noticed FS's Eric Damery posting recently, but maybe that was on the Jaws Lite list and I didn't bother reading the From line when I opened the message. 2. I think everyone here must know that if they wanted to submit complaints about Jaws directly to Freedom Scientific by email or phone, they could do so. But the list offers a sort of colloquy of commiseration which you just can't get by simply filing a complaint. So it isn't by accident that all this is going on here; I think that sense of community is part of the purpose of a forum like this, and not an aberration. Just a personal take on this. Not meaning to interfere with any of the arguing. ehere eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Miller" <n1umj@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Anyone out there happy with Jfw 6.1? Well complaining on the list sure doesn't do any good since they no longer monitor the list. You want to complain? complain to them. There's not 1 person on this list that can 1 do better or they would, 2 do anything about any bugs, and 3, the problems don't apply to all of us so you never know what will happen. A public beta would be good but instead of constructive suggestions and bug reporting, all anyone did was cry, complain and say fix it with out saying exactly what it was doing, or really offering any decent description of the problem and their system and if you get 3500 people beta testing a public beta, and 300 can actually tell you what's wrong, you can't be following up with 3200 others and I think it's more that beta tested and less that could give a good description of the problem. When you only have a very small customer base, it's easier to keep up with that stuff. So, if you want to go to a company like that, go for it, but fact is, if everyone does that, then that company will have the same problems if not worse and then FS might be able to keep up with things depending on what customers stay. Me, I'd love to try another product again for the fun of it but I can't afford to and as of 5 years ago jaws was all I liked anyway so I probably wouldn't like to change now either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Bartlett" <cwbtt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Anyone out there happy with Jfw 6.1? Ok, let's cut through the sentiment here. Freedom Scientific is a *business* that offers *products* to *customers*. Customers have a legitimate expectation that when problems occur, those problems will be addressed by the software provider, especially when the software is priced so high that it requires either state funding or a significant investment compared to the average blind person's income (anyone seen the most recent employment statistics?) I, as a customer, do not give a hoot in Hades how complex it is. They are the professionals. I was once a computer softwared professional, so yes I appreciate the difficulties, but you know what, that's their problem and it shouldn't be mine as a customer who pays a big chunk of cash for their product. There is a tendency among blind computer users to demand less of their software providers than the general market. I don't know if this comes from misplaced loyalty, "they produced something that made my computer accessible, so I must overlook their glaring faults" or what, but I see it across the board from basic access tech providers like FS and game manufacturers. You expect less quality, excuse poor quality and get annoyed when the more realistic among us express dissatisfaction. I don't get it. Oh, and using Microsoft as a comparison is rather like saying that polio is slightly better than the black plague. I say all this as someone who has owned JFW since 1999, and found a lot of good in the application. I don't use WE and am not particularly interested in the religious war that could spring from comparisons of their merits; I have a limited budget and time to learn software, so I'll likely stick with JFW. I've not encountered some of the problems. But I do get bumfuzzled by the reflexive defensiveness of some of you around FS and quality issues. It's almost as though you are afraid that if we bitch too much, they will take our toys away. RElax guys, either they stand or they fall, and it'll be on the quality of their product, not the complaints of denizens of this list. Chris Bartlett -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005 -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx