[jawsscripts] Re: operating YouTube volume, rewind/FastForward with Jaws/ScreenReders
- From: "Donald Marang" <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:17:49 -0400
I have talked to FS many times about problems with Flash. They were mostly
not interested. Perhaps none of their government contracts depend on Flash
capability. For the most part, they admit that JAWS has a mouse tracking
problem within a JAWS object, They also say that there is little that JAWS
engineers can do about this because Flash takes over! I think we need a
Catholic Priest to perform an Exorcism!
To answer an earlier question. Flash movies used to be considered objects
and the o quick key navigation would work great to move to Flash movies. I
think Adobe filed a harassment suit and FS had to stop treating them as
objects <grin>.
Don Marang
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: operating YouTube volume, rewind/FastForward with
Jaws/ScreenReders
> Tried the scripts on youtube. i didn't see much a difference in what
> you can do. still never saw the youtube speaker, and getting into the
> flash context menu ain't as easy as it was. maybe a different screen
> reader will have more view, but jaws still lacks in flash as much as
> msaa support witch is a joke.
>
> At 10:16 PM 7/17/2009, you wrote:
>>Thanks for checking this out. I will have to check out the scripts at
>>Adobe.
>>
>>If you click the right mouse button within a Flash movie, a Adobe context
>>menu will appear with several useful options including About (will
>>provide
>>version number), settings and sometimes other controls like pause and
>>zoom.
>>
>>Don Marang
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:18 AM
>>Subject: [jawsscripts] operating YouTube volume, rewind/FastForward with
>>Jaws/ScreenReders
>>
>>
>> > yep this is pretty normative in my view.
>> > it's a flash element, in this case, and I have had eyes on this last
>> > night
>> > and can at least now share with you what I have learned from my kind
>> > friend's patient assistance.
>> > This was mostly penned before seeing Don's very informative info as to
>> > the
>> > authorship of all this great new accessibility that has come to youTube
>> > flash player, that certainly was not there before.
>> > I wonder why though, if they did all that, they left any "unlabelled
>> > buttons," in the thing at all! which their certainly still are.
>> > however,
>> > it's streets ahead of where we were before they all did this.
>> > so, Yay! I say.
>> >
>> > man isn't the web just fantastic that one can share eyes all over the
>> > jolly
>> > world now!
>> >
>> >
>> > from my testing here from jaws7 through jaws10, it appears to me that
>> > the
>> > recent changes which now identify, some, of the buttons in the youTube
>> > flash
>> > player, have not come through later internal jaws tweaks, but from
>> > something
>> > either from within adobe flash player itself, or from youTUbe's
>> > implementation/markup of it, which is a wonderful thing for us, for
>> > which
>> > I
>> > intend to write to whomever makes youtube, and thank them profusely
>> > for.
>> > for this whole youtube experience is a whole lot more
>> > accessible/useable
>> > for
>> > us now than it ever was before!
>> > yay for near equal participation!
>> >
>> > now, firstly, usual disclaimers all over the place for all below!
>> > This post will probably get wider circulation than just this jaws
>> > Scripting
>> > list, so forgive the references to multiple screenReaders, which some
>> > may
>> > feel inappropriate here.
>> > I offer the below only from my limited experience/findings, As Is, I
>> > think
>> > the expression is,
>> > and absolutely cannot guarantee in any way that they'll work flawlessly
>> > or
>> > even at all, for anyone else.
>> >
>> > Tip: I also find this experience a tad more reliable, if one goes into
>> > verbosity menu, and under jaws10, hits letter p to jump to the "page
>> > refresh," option, and toggles it's default state of, "automatically,"
>> > to,
>> > "off." it just seems to reduce some of the random movement of the flash
>> > buttons, coz in virtual cursor land they do seem to shift around the
>> > place
>> > a
>> > bit more when this is left set to automatically. Don't yet know what
>> > other
>> > negative caveats setting this refresh page to off though would have, so
>> > take
>> > this as a warning.
>> >
>> > tip2: I also find this process is rendered with a greater level of
>> > confirmatory helpful feedback, if one turns on a feature which is off
>> > by
>> > default in jaws, called notify when cursor changes shape.
>> > I feel This is helpful because in this process, it's quite useful to be
>> > able
>> > to hear when the mouse pointer, is either an arrow shape, or what jaws,
>> > not
>> > very definitively, <groan>,
>> > identifies as, "unknown," which I'm told is actually a hand shape,
>> > indicating to sightlings that you can drag something, or even perhaps
>> > that
>> > something is clickable etc, don't quote me on the last one.
>> > and this information can be very helpful for blind people to know as
>> > well!
>> > Why do not fs choose to label their mousePointters more helpfully me
>> > asks?
>> > FS are you listening? he he!
>> >
>> > To do this:
>> > 1. hit insert+f2, to bring up the run jaws manager menu, then hit c for
>> > config manager, and enter.
>> > 2. if you wish to make this change across the board to all
>> > applications,
>> > hit
>> > controlShiftD to load the default config set, before moving to step 3.
>> > if
>> > you only want this valid for your browser, from whence youTube is
>> > obviously
>> > going to reside, then skip this step and move to step 3.
>> >
>> > 3. hit alt+s for set options menu, then c for cursor dialog.
>> > the first option in here should be "notify when cursor changes shape."
>> > which
>> > is usually unchecked by default.
>> >
>> > 4. check this box with spaceBar, then press enter to save the change,
>> > then
>> > control+s to save the new config settings, and alt+f4 to quit config
>> > manager.
>> >
>> >
>> > Whilst there seems to be no way to jump directly to flash movies, which
>> > I
>> > reeeeally had thought there was a quick key for this at one stage, but
>> > I
>> > can
>> > no longer identify what that was, if it ever existed outside my
>> > imagination
>> > at all,
>> > it seems that after searching for a youtube presentation, and then
>> > clicking
>> > on the link you want from the results listing,
>> > and it then beginning to play, at least in my version of IE, which I'm
>> > sorry
>> > to say for testing purposes is still IE6, so this may be different in
>> > IE7,
>> > 8, or firefox,
>> > the youtube flash player seems to come up pretty much at the start of
>> > heading level 1. so after first hitting controlHome to insure one is
>> > at
>> > the
>> > top of the page in virtual land,
>> > one can press h to jump there, and then arrow down till you hear jaws
>> > say
>> > "flash movie start," which is where one's youTube playbakc monipulation
>> > controls are located.
>> >
>> > alternatively, you can also just start hittin the quick key B, for
>> > button,
>> > which now also seems to take into account these labelled/identified,
>> > and
>> > also unlabelled buttons, which appear in the youTube flash player.
>> >
>> > Thirdly, an even quicker way just discovered, is to press Tab after
>> > jumping
>> > to the heading level 1 section.
>> > For it also seems as if these buttons are now tabbable to as well!
>> > Amazing!
>> > The advantage of using tab to navigate to them is, that it seems to
>> > skip
>> > the
>> > buttons that are still unlabelled in here, which arrowing to them or
>> > hitting
>> > quickKey B, does not do.
>> > So this can be quite helpful especially if your trying to navigate to
>> > either
>> > the play/pause button to cease playback/shut it up, or the volume/mute
>> > button, from whence
>> > you can operate jaws to reduce the volume, as indicated below,
>> > when you got bearly hearable speech feedback due to the potential
>> > volume
>> > of
>> > the youtube playback content etc.
>> >
>> > though having said that, I unfortunately feel I should add for
>> > completeness,
>> > that I've found so farr that tabbing isn't always as reliable for
>> > getting
>> > virtual pc onto this button, than is arrowing or hitting B, though I
>> > don't
>> > quite yet know why. I advise if you can hear at all, to confirm by
>> > hitting
>> > readCurrent
>> > line, to see if it also identifies you are really focused on the
>> > volume/Mute
>> > button that you think you are, after you've tabbed to it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Using this latter tabbing method, assuming the flash player is in the
>> > first
>> > heading level1 section, after pressing controlHome, then h once, here,
>> > I
>> > tab
>> > once to get to the play/pause button, which spaceBar operates, or 3
>> > times,
>> > to get to the volume/mute button. Passing in the middle, the
>> > seekSliderBar
>> > button, which is also extraordinarily useful to be able to operate with
>> > your
>> > screenReader's mouse movement commands,
>> > to rewind/fastForward through youTube content, See below.
>> >
>> > Firstly to change the volume, after landing on the volume/mute button,
>> > assuming you do not wish to just mute it with spacebar, which would be
>> > pretty pointless for majority of purposes,
>> > try the following:
>> > 1. press your screenReader's route mouse to virtual pc control, in jaws
>> > of
>> > course it's insert+NumPad Minus.
>> > The mouse should now be on the mute button, along with the virtual pc
>> > cursor
>> > focus.
>> > . If you want to confirm this, you can click your screenReader's left
>> > mouseButton command, once should mute the sound, once again should
>> > bring
>> > it
>> > back to the same volume level it was before.
>> >
>> > 2. Hit your screenReader's pixel mouseMovement right command, in jaws
>> > this
>> > is altShiftRightArrow, 3 times, moving 9 pixels right, in jaws default
>> > 3
>> > pixels per press settings, to get more towards the centre of this
>> > button,
>> > since it's actually wider than the volume track bar, which is directly
>> > above
>> > it.
>> > tip: at any time, you can hit the Jaws extraordinarily difficult to
>> > execute
>> > ReadMousePointer shape keystroke, insert+control+shift+c,
>> > to identify manually what the mousePointer shape is, if you miss it
>> > spoken
>> > automatically as it changes shape.
>> > When over the mute button, in jaws, it should identify as, "unknown."
>> >
>> > 3. . Now in jaws, press AltShiftUpArrow about 13 times, moving about 39
>> > pixels upwards, to get to a spot in the volume trackBar, which seems to
>> > be
>> > a
>> > goodish spot for reducing level such that you might hear your
>> > screenReader
>> > speech above it, when coming out of the same soundCard.
>> >
>> > 4. click the leftMouseButton. your volume should jump down by a
>> > considerable amount, enabling you to hear your screenReader better.
>> >
>> > Tip: if you want some confirmatory feedback that your volume trackBar
>> > is
>> > really there, for believe me there are for some reason, situations why
>> > sometimes it just does not appear at all onscreen,
>> > whilst your navigating with altShiftUpArrow, if you do so with slight
>> > pausing between each altShiftArrow press, to give yourself time to hear
>> > what
>> > jaws might announce between each, you should, at about the 7th press
>> > from
>> > the beginning, hear jaws identify that the mousepointer shape has
>> > returned
>> > to being an arrow, then about the 9th press, you should hear that it's
>> > once
>> > again become, "unknown," according to jaws, really, it's now a hand
>> > shape.
>> > This means that your volume track bar is really there. if you don't
>> > hear
>> > this, or if at the 13th press, you manually check the mousePointer
>> > shape,
>> > and it still identifies as an arrow shape, then the volume TrackBar is
>> > not
>> > visible, and you'll need to try shift Tabbing away from the button, and
>> > tabbing back to it again, and jump back to step 1, repeating the
>> > process.
>> > viz, the mousePointer shape, should identify as, "Unknown," by jaws,
>> > if you are truly over the
>> > volume trackBar, and for your click anywhere along this, to jump the
>> > volume
>> > to the
>> > position of the mouse.
>> >
>> > Now. If this works, and it's too soft for you, you can then either:
>> > (a.) use your screenReader's leftButtonLock command, in jaws it's
>> > insert+NumPadSlash, then press altShiftUpArrow, which will drag the
>> > volume
>> > slider up and allow you to hear the sound of the volume increasing in
>> > realTime as you do it. Use this command again when the volume is at
>> > the
>> > level you want, to unlock the mouseButton and leave it there.
>> > (b.) alternatively, you can simply keep altShiftUpArrowing, then left
>> > click
>> > the mouseButton, to jump the volume to your new position. However
>> > using
>> > this method won't give you the much more helpful experience of hearing
>> > exactly what your level is dynamically in realTime, before jumping your
>> > volume to that point.
>> >
>> > Now as indicated above, Sometimes this trackBar for some as yet
>> > inexplicable
>> > reason, fails to appear, as it only seems to appear either after the
>> > MousePointer is hovering over a certain spot on Screen, or perhaps when
>> > virtual focus is moved to the volume/mute button, I'm not entirely sure
>> > which yet. Sometimes I've found that even shiftTabbing away from and
>> > tabbing back to the volume/mute button and repeating the above process,
>> > does
>> > not change the mousePointer shape to the "unknown," shape, which it
>> > needs
>> > to
>> > be when sitting about 30 pixels above the volume/mute button, to
>> > indicate
>> > that the trackBar is really visible there. viz, the volume/mute button
>> > can
>> > be
>> > there, and the mousePointer can be unknown at that point, and even
>> > operate
>> > it via left clicking, but sometimes, the actual volume TrackBar still
>> > does
>> > not appear. so do be aware of this.
>> >
>> >
>> > now, for operating the SeekSliderBar button to rewind/FastForward
>> > youTube
>> > content, try the following:
>> >
>> > 1. navigate to this button with virtual cursor, either by tabbing,
>> > arrowing,
>> > or using B/ShiftB to get there.
>> > Remembering that tabbing doesn't seem to always be quite as reliable as
>> > other two methods.
>> >
>> > 2. route Mouse/jaws Cursor to virtual PC cursor.
>> >
>> > 3. using ScreenReader's mouseMovement LeftRight commands this time,
>> > move
>> > in
>> > the direction you wish to take the youTube clip, obvoiusly left to
>> > rewind,
>> > right to fastForward.
>> >
>> > 4. click the leftMouseButton at the new location. The clip should
>> > immediately jump to this new position.
>> >
>> > now, if you have hotSpotClicker installed and set up to run in your
>> > browser,
>> > even in the basic Use "HotSpotClicker.jsb"
>> > mode,
>> > some other rather sweet operations become available to you.
>> >
>> > But, I won't detail them here now, because, ... oh heeehee
>> > heheeheheheheheheheha,
>> > this is sooooo'oe'oe'oe'oe'oe funny! after all this work and all this
>> > testing, I've taken Don's adobe links he provided today,
>> > and read up on this a bit and done some more testing, and, ... guess
>> > what!
>> > oh man! this is funny! your all gunna laugh big time!
>> > ok, everyone sitting comfortably?
>> > right, then I'll begin.
>> > if you actually insure you tab to any one of the buttons in the youTube
>> > flash movie, such that they are really in actual proper focus in the
>> > browser, as opposed to just using quick keys or arrows in virtual land
>> > to
>> > navigate to them, in which case this of course doesn't work,
>> > but, if you then just hit insert+z, to turn off virtual pc, then
>> > suddenly,
>> > your upDown arrows become volume controls, and your left right arrows
>> > skip
>> > back and forth around the clip! oh the simplicity of it all! he he!in
>> > very
>> > large segments mind you, so the above was still worth knowing about if
>> > you
>> > want finer resolution, but, who knows, maybe there's even a way to
>> > change
>> > the keyboard arrow resolution operation of those controls! he he, he
>> > he,
>> > he
>> > ha!
>> >
>> > So don, looks like that's how one forces the screen reader into a sort
>> > of
>> > fake forms mode, or really, I guess, more returning keyboard
>> > functionality
>> > to the browser itself, by temporarily turning off virtual pc with
>> > insert+z.
>> > you can't of course read anything like the elapsed time, or anything
>> > useful
>> > whilst virtual pc is disabled,
>> > but, that's what I've discovered so far anywayz! home and end don't
>> > seem
>> > to
>> > work for me here in IE 6 though, to skip to beginning and end of the
>> > clip,
>> > which I'm sure I read on the adobe site Don posted, that it was meant
>> > to,
>> > but now we can write to people at adobe about this anywayz. I've also
>> > got
>> > to insure I've got the latest flash player version 10 installed, which
>> > I
>> > don't know how to check that yet. if anyone knows, maybe they could
>> > post
>> > that here? oh what a lengthy post!
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm off to bed now.
>> >
>> > geoff c.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:28 AM
>> > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws and YouTube
>> >
>> >
>> >> yep, and it don't show even then as a graphic to the page.
>> >>
>> >> At 11:54 AM 7/16/2009, you wrote:
>> >> >Hi,
>> >> >Did you try going into the verbosity dialog with Insert+V and
>> >> >switching the graphics-show item to all? It's set to tagged by
>> >> >default.
>> >> >
>> >> >Jim
>> >> >
>> >> >----------
>> >> >Jim Homme
>> >> >Usability Services
>> >> >412-544-1810
>> >> >james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> >"You can do anything you want to if you put your mind to it" -- Jim
>> >> >Homme
>> > Sr.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >[mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>> >> >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:01 PM
>> >> >To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws and youtube
>> >> >
>> >> >ah, thus why I never saw it with all the jaws and invisible cursoring
>> >> >I
>> > did
>> >> >either, thanks for the info.
>> >> >
>> >> >elf
>> >> >proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>> >> >for blind computer users and programmers
>> >> >http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> >> >Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>> >> >"own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!"
>> >> >www.alacorncomputer.com
>> >> >Owner: Agemtree
>> >> >"merchants in fine facetted and cabochon gemstones"
>> >> >www.agemtree.com
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:21 PM
>> >> >Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws and youtube
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > On youtube, there is a speaker graphic. This graphic is not seen
>> >> > > by
>> >> > > jaws, and controls the volume for the flash content that comes of
>> >> > > that page. i had to have someone with sight do a remote on my box
>> >> > > to
>> >> > > get it turned on and then up.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > At 12:38 AM 7/15/2009, you wrote:
>> >> > >>hmmm, I thought it was controlled by the system volume, but I
>> >> > >>could
>> >> > >>be
>> >> > >>wrong, if I get a chance I'll take a look, but am in the middle of
>> >> > >>one
>> > of
>> >> > >>my
>> >> > >>lists moving, so am a little overrun at the moment!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>laters,
>> >> > >>elf
>> >> > >>proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>> >> > >>for blind computer users and programmers
>> >> > >>http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> >> > >>Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>> >> > >>"own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!"
>> >> > >>www.alacorncomputer.com
>> >> > >>Owner: Agemtree
>> >> > >>"merchants in fine facetted and cabochon gemstones"
>> >> > >>www.agemtree.com
>> >> > >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> > >>From: "Julio" <jmorones@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > >>To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > >>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:50 PM
>> >> > >>Subject: [jawsscripts] jaws and youtube
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> > hello I have a question I was playing youtube vidios on my
>> > computer
>> >> > >> > but I
>> >> > >> > want to know is their any jaws scrips I can't turn up the
>> >> > >> > volume.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > __________
>> >> > >> > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> >> > >> > http://jawsscripts.com
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> > >> > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>__________
>> >> > >>Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> > http://jawsscripts.com
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> > >>//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Tim
>> >> > > trouble
>> >> > > Verizon FIOS support tech
>> >> > > "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>> > substance."
>> >> > > --Sam Brown
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Blindeudora list owner.
>> >> > > To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
>> >> > >
>> >> > > __________
>> >> > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> > http://jawsscripts.com
>> >> > >
>> >> > > View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> > > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >__________
>> >> >Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> >> >http://jawsscripts.com
>> >> >
>> >> >View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> >//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are
>> >> >intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> >> >addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
>> >> >the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the
>> >> >intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or
>> >> >distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. The
>> >> >views expressed in this e-mail message do not necessarily represent
>> >> >the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
>> >> >__________
>> >> >Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> >> >http://jawsscripts.com
>> >> >
>> >> >View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> >//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >>
>> >> Tim
>> >> trouble
>> >> Verizon FIOS support tech
>> >> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>> >> substance."
>> >> --Sam Brown
>> >>
>> >> Blindeudora list owner.
>> >> To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
>> >>
>> >> __________
>> >> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> >> http://jawsscripts.com
>> >>
>> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >>
>> >
>> > __________
>> > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
>> > http://jawsscripts.com
>> >
>> > View the list's information and change your settings at
>> > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>> >
>>
>>__________
>>Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>>
>>View the list's information and change your settings at
>>//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
> Tim
> trouble
> Verizon FIOS support tech
> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance."
> --Sam Brown
>
> Blindeudora list owner.
> To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
>
> __________
> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
__________
Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
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