[jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
- From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:38:46 +1100
Yeah.
I too would like to understand the totality of how you worked around this
one. much learning may ensue!
though I'd need a xp system with itunes 10.6 on it, and one with win7 and
itunes 10.6 on it, so I could mess around, fiddle, disable stuff you'd done,
and reenable it again, and suss the results, etc etc. to inculcate knowledge
optimally I guess eh.
hmmm.
From: "Bob Kennedy" <intheshop@xxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
> If it's no extra trouble.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Martyn" <johnrobertmartyn@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 10:17 PM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>
>
> Did you want the function that retrieves the window handles as well
> besides
> the functions and scripts?
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Kennedy
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:03 PM
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>
> I'd like a copy. If you want to send it off list that would be fine.
> intheshop@xxxxxxx is my address.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Martyn" <johnrobertmartyn@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:29 PM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>
>
> My mistake before, they do have window handles. I was thinking like the
> track list with objects within a track list like that, but for dialogs,
> apparently I did find a way to grab all the window handles that were a
> child
> of the GetRealWindow. It was tricky to get it to focus to the right items,
> but it works like a charm now. Many barriers had to be overcome. If you'd
> like an example of the code, I can post it, but it stretches out into
> different functions as well as I had to create the tab and shift tab keys
> that detected for XP and lower and if dialog active with multi select
> turned
> on, then it works. I didn't want to interfere with other dialog windows
> that
> did work fine.
> John Martyn
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoff Chapman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:26 AM
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>
>
> So just in order to steer conversation back to topic, and to John's
> original
> queery of navigating tabbable to elements in the preferences dialog in
> iTunes 10.6. So are you saying John, that this only happens on win xp
> systems then? and not on win7? and only begun in 10.6?
> is this correct?
>
> Surely they couldn't get away with breaking things on that kind of scale,
> could they?
> ... oh don't answer that! I already know what it is!
> <sigh.>
> And, do please keep us up-to-date then,on any solutions/workarounds you
> may
> be trialing for this one?
>
> I haven't got itunes 10 6 on this old win xp laptop, and I was about to
> install it on my old desktop 2003 xp system on it, but it decided to die
> just last week! so guess it's time I launched into win7.
>
> hmmm.
>
> So are you also saying, that these tabbable to controls, don't form actual
> standard separate navigable windows? as my extremely limited understanding
> was they do in normal app dialogs?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:17 PM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>
>
>> hmmmm, well, my understanding would've been,
>> that their motivation to make this a good user-experience under windows,
>> could, possibly, have stemmed from the fact, that my understanding was
>> that
>> macs only still make up a teency percentage of the amount of people
>> actually
>> using itunes! either to buy stuff from their store, or to transfer stuff
>> to
>> their IOS devices! and that many of them are blind/vision impaired! So
>> I'd
>> have thought that would have provided, and I think must've to some
>> degree,
>> sufficient economic motivation to care about it for vips. They own/buy
>> ipods/iPhones and music too. and a great many more would under windows
>> than
>> on macs with voiceover.
>> would it not be so?
>> I realize you can use the store directly on those devices, and thanks
>> Trouble for pointing out that's primarily how you get around the dodgy
>> performance of iTunes store under windows.
>> But, if it wasn't dodgy, and worked well, you'd enjoy utilizing it there
>> too
>> would not you?
>>
>> I know that traditionally, windoweyes has been much more in their
>> developer
>> ears though than FS have been, though last time I tried the iTunes store
>> on
>> Windoweyes, which admittedly was some time back now, it too had issues
>> with
>> whole pages rendering to us via speech, what was no longer actually
>> onscreen, thus the whole virtual buffer refresh deal again.
>>
>> Somehow they've implemented things differently than the browsers do,
>> where
>> you can reliably, well mostly reliably, arrow to buttons and links in
>> virtual pc mode, hit enter on them, and it tightly integrates with
>> activating that button/link in the real world. This is not so much the
>> case
>> with jaws under iTunes. and I find I may often have to either:
>> (a.) turn off the virtual cursor all together with insert+Z, and try and
>> locate the particular link/edit box with the realWorld tab key, with
>> virtual cursor turned off, (coz even leaving it on and doing that rather
>> than arrowing to them doesn't seem to always do it. and/or
>> (b.) do a bit of the, not oft utilized, Control+Insert+Delete function,
>> which attempts to route the RealWorld application focus to the position
>> of
>> the Virtual cursor. That sometimes works also.
>>
>> And a bit of judicious Jaws+Escape manual screen OSM refreshing along the
>> way.
>>
>> oh, and usage of place temporary marker before clicking a button to
>> preview
>> songs, goes a long way in helping relocate one's place too.
>> grrr!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:21 AM
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>>
>>
>>> It does work with voice over. However, the
>>> windows version they are not to worried with,
>>> because they have few programs for windows. So
>>> they just make it work with windows. It is up to
>>> the makers of windows screen readers to handle that job.
>>>
>>> At 07:32 AM 3/13/2012, you wrote:
>>>>Yeh, but how does it run on a Mac with VoiceOver? I'm sure they test it
>>>>on their own hardware with their own OS and their own screen reader.
>>>>I've never been sure what Apple's motivation was to spend resources
>>>>making iTunes accessible on Windows when they could just respond by
>>>>telling everyone it works with VoiceOver.
>>>>
>>>>On 13/03/12 06:19, Geoff Chapman wrote:
>>>> > Far out! Apple seriously drive me insane with what they're always
>>>> > dooen
>>>> > to
>>>> > break itunes accessibility with nearly every version they bring out!
>>>> > don't
>>>> > you reckon John?
>>>> >
>>>> > it's got a serious refreshing conflict/focus syncronization
>>>> > difficulties
>>>> > already, with jaws I reckon, in the itunes store, which makes using
>>>> > it
>>>> > a
>>>> > total pain in bottom difficulty, which either FS or apple reeeally
>>>> > should
>>>> > attend to in my view, fix, and now they've broken preferences dialog?
>>>> > my
>>>> > goodness.
>>>> > nobody obviously tests each release for this stuff before they
>>>> > release
>>>> > it
>>>> > eh. why on earth not! I cry. in the
>>>> wilderness no doubt. has anyone ansered
>>>> > you on this email adress you've got here below before John? Do they
>>>> > even
>>>> > monitor it realistically?
>>>> > I'll jolly email them as well if so!
>>>> > I've kept itunes 10.3 and jaws 11 on this laptop here for exactly
>>>> > these
>>>> > reasons! 10.4 they messed around with the tab
>>>> order of where the search box
>>>> > occurred, and then tried to do automatic jumps of focus after search
>>>> > has
>>>> > completed into the iTunes store, thus meanig that if you hit f6 then,
>>>> > when
>>>> > it'd done that, in the midst of it trying to get itself together re
>>>> > the
>>>> > refreshing conflict, you'd crash the thing sooo jolly easily!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > grrr!
>>>> > sorry for the rant peeps.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "John Martyn" <johnrobertmartyn@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:26 AM
>>>> > Subject: [jawsscripts] Troubles with iTunes in Win XP
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> This is going to sound a little strange, but now in the preferences
>>>> >> window,
>>>> >> when you tab, it skips all the objects contained within that window.
>>>> >> It
>>>> >> only
>>>> >> happens under the first two tabs, but the rest of them work fine.
>>>> >> This
>>>> >> problem started with iTunes 10.6 and happens with or without the
>>>> >> blind
>>>> >> tunes
>>>> >> scripts.
>>>> >> My question is, can I walk through focusing objects if I know the
>>>> >> window
>>>> >> handle of the preference window? I was thinking for XP systems, I
>>>> >> could
>>>> >> create a tab and shift tab key script that will walk through the
>>>> >> objects,
>>>> >> but I don't see any function that could do this. I am really at a
>>>> >> loss
>>>> >> as
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> what I can do for XP systems other than email
>>>> >> accessibility@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> pray they hear my message.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The tab key as it is in XP just jumps to SDM controls though you can
>>>> >> change
>>>> >> the tabs just fine. I am guessing apple removed the tab index
>>>> >> somehow.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What should I do? If I can fix it for XP systems, I'd like to
>>>> >> because
>>>> >> apple
>>>> >> most likely isn't going to do something for the old XP operating
>>>> >> system.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am using the focusChangedEventX to work with the object elements.
>>>> >> If
>>>> >> I
>>>> >> use
>>>> >> the objectStateChanged Event iTunes goes nuts and doesn't respond.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks in advance,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> John Martyn
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>>chaltain@xxxxxxxxx
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