[jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
- From: Doug Lee <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:23:04 -0400
It's ok. Basically I try to minimize the amount of effort required for
any project, like any good programmer surely does, but without
upsetting anyone in the process. I figure any money spent paying for
scripts is an expense against employing blind people, hence, not
something to maximize. :) But the "when in Rome" addage does apply to
an extent, so contracts are contracts and not all choices are mine.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 01:13:48AM +1000, Geoff Chapman wrote:
Thanks heaps Doug for taking the time to outline all that so comprehensively
for me.
It just really helped me get a feel for how the big guns function, and I
really appreciated that.
Hope you didn't find the question invasive at all.
Geoff C.
From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:39 PM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
> Typically work is owned by whoever pays for it. For a contract, the
> client paying for the contract has ownership of the code. My company
> also maintains the ability to let me use parts of code from one
> project in another as long as no trade secrets are shared, but of
> course in scripting, that's almost never an issue because we're not
> dealing in trade secrets, or even really in the knowledge domain of
> the apps we script, so much as we're dealing in accessibility issues.
> In other words, I don't need to care what the fields on a screen mean,
> but I do need to care that their contents are announced. But I
> digress...
>
> I sell the code reusability concept to clients as the money savings
> that it really represents. But unless I've put some of my own personal
> time into developing something, I consider it owned by my company
> (SSB) and by whichever client(s) paid for the work. I actually keep
> lists of who owns what part of every project in this way, tied to the
> code, so that when I go to, say, script for something like Skype or
> TeamTalk or Zello or something else I'm giving out myself, I don't
> include any code that I didn't partly or wholely develop on my own
> time.
>
> The code for Silverlight was developed under a single contract and, as
> I said, is specific to the screens involved in that contract. I sent
> a message here earlier explaining some of the techniques I remember
> coming up with during that effort, but I don't think I would be able
> to post code blocks for that here, both because of how the code was
> developed and because the code does deal specifically with client
> screen content.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 02:55:06PM +1000, Geoff Chapman wrote:
> Ah. Sorry Doug I didn't see your last before I posted my other queery re
> your telling us more specifically about your
> Silverlight investigative offerings etc.
>
> Just on that though, If I understood arights,
> you mentioned that you felt you couldn't divulge/release, specific code
> that
> you'd created, under contract to someone else. would you mind just
> elaborating a bit on the nuts and bolts of the protocol around that? Like
> I
> mean,
> when you script something for someone on a fee for service basis, do you
> deem that they're not just paying you for your time, but they actually own
> the code you create as well? and thus your no longer the owner of the
> code,
> to utilize or distribute to others as you might like?
>
> Is that how it works over there?
> GC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:38 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>
>
>> Ah, that's what I meant when I said accNavigate did not work. The JAWS
>> getObject*() calls probably do, but those only trace up through
>> parents, not latterally. There's another type of object hierarchy
>> demonstrated in the JAWS 13 Visual Studio 2010.jss file (see the
>> BuildAccessibleTree() function and its callers), but I'm not sure
>> if/where that one is documented yet.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 06:13:39PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote:
>> The MSAA object ID's.
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Doug Lee
>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 5:37 PM
>> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>>
>> Which object hierarchy do you mean?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:03:20PM +0100, Sean Farrow wrote:
>> Hi :
>> Doug, can you remember whether GetNex/PreviousChild worked in the object
>> hierarchy?
>> I've got a Silverlight app I'll need to use at work for analysing log
>> files.
>> Cheers
>> Sean.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Lee
>> Sent: 18 June 2012 20:14
>> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>>
>> Unfortunately, and like much of the scripting I do, the Silverlight
>> scripting I did was part of a contract and is therefore not something I
>> can
>> just drop out in public. :) I can tell you a few things though.
>> Some of the uncertainty here is for my lack of recollection...
>>
>> If GetFocusObject() won't get you an MSAA object, getObjectFromEvent on
>> the
>> Silverlight window with an objID of -4 (ObjID_Client) should.
>>
>>>From that MSAA object, obj.accFocus should get you the focused object,
>>>for
>>>which you can then get properties like accName, accDescription, etc.
>>
>> obj.accParent works too, so you can get parent properties up to the top
>> level. accNavigate and indexing by childID does not work however.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 02:52:48PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote:
>> With earlier versions of Logos you could download the basic program with
>> a
>> couple of books for free but I didn't see anything like that on the
>> current
>> site. It is:
>>
>> http://www.logos.com/
>>
>> Would you send us your Silverlite scripts so we could see what you did
>> with
>> that program?
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Doug Lee
>> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:37 PM
>> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>>
>> I've scripted for Microsoft Silverlight, which I believe shares much with
>> WPF. Would be interesting to know what's available there.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 07:54:01PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote:
>> Logos 4 is based on wpf programming. So the only things JAWS can read is
>> what Logos puts in the program. With the latest update you can open a
>> book
>> by using the library. then you can read the first line with a SayLine.
>> Then
>> if you hit the down arrow and do a SayLine it just scrolls the text a few
>> words to the right.
>>
>> I wrote a lot of scripts for Logos 3 years ago but nothing in Logos 4 is
>> scriptable.
>>
>> I think with Windows 8 JAWS won't be able to use the visual hooks like in
>> earlier Windows so I wonder if we might be able to read the text with the
>> normal keystrokes once the new version of JAWS comes out?
>>
>> They are trying to work on accessibility in Logos 4 but they onnly have
>> the
>> demo version of JAWS. They told me that with NVDA they can read the text
>> on
>> the screen. so that is why I am wondering if we might be able to when the
>> new version of JAWS comes out.
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Merv Keck
>> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:50 PM
>> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>>
>> I have Logos 4 Platinum Edition but am still a basic beginner when it
>> comes
>> to scripting. However, I can tell you that Logos 4 is cloud based as
>> opposed
>> to Logos 3. Since losing most of my usuable vision about 15 months ago I
>> have pretty much lost the ability to use many of my non -english language
>> studies such as Hebrew, Greek, and Akkadian cuneiform. The read aloud
>> drives me crazy and the accessibility features built into Logos 4 are
>> problematic but I understand from some other blind Logos 4 users that
>> they
>> are trying to make Logos morfe accessible so I have high expectations
>> especially since I have over 2,000 resources tied up into Logos since
>> 2001
>> and don't want to give up on it.
>> blind5sparrow
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Doug Lee
>> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:39 PM
>> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted?
>>
>> If you're at all handy with Script Utility Mode, check out the window
>> class
>> name of the main window, whether it has descendants, and whether it has
>> MSAA
>> objects. If you have just a single window, no MSAA objects, and no OSM
>> text
>> (which is what you already discovered), you found a difficult case, and
>> something like Hot Spot Clicker may be your best bet. If you see a window
>> tree and/or a set of MSAA objects, it might be possible to script that.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 05:07:49PM -0400, John Thomas wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> A few years ago I wrote a set of scripts for version 3 of the Logos Bible
>> software program. A couple months after I finished, the Logos folks
>> rolled
>> out version 4. It is built on a totally different platform. My evaluation
>> of
>> version 4 is that it cannot be scripted. I just want to check my
>> assumptions
>> with the list here to see if my assessment is correct.
>>
>> I assume it cannot be scripted, because I cannot read any text with
>> either
>> the JAWS or Invisible cursor. The only thing I can read is the name of
>> the
>> program with the PC cursor. The cursor routing functions also do not
>> work.
>> With the previous version, I could use the invisible cursor to read any
>> text
>> that was visible to a sighted user. Since I cannot read anything with the
>> JAWS or Invisible cursors, I assume there is really nothing I can do with
>> version 4. Is this correct?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group -
>> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it
>> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group -
>> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it
>> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group -
>> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it
>> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
>> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
>> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
>> it was done." --Helen Keller
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
>> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
>> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
>> it was done." --Helen Keller
>> __________???
>>
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>>
>
> __________???
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
> --
> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
> it was done." --Helen Keller
> __________???
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
__________???
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
--
Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
it was done." --Helen Keller
__________�
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
Other related posts:
