It's ok. Basically I try to minimize the amount of effort required for any project, like any good programmer surely does, but without upsetting anyone in the process. I figure any money spent paying for scripts is an expense against employing blind people, hence, not something to maximize. :) But the "when in Rome" addage does apply to an extent, so contracts are contracts and not all choices are mine. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 01:13:48AM +1000, Geoff Chapman wrote: Thanks heaps Doug for taking the time to outline all that so comprehensively for me. It just really helped me get a feel for how the big guns function, and I really appreciated that. Hope you didn't find the question invasive at all. Geoff C. From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:39 PM Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? > Typically work is owned by whoever pays for it. For a contract, the > client paying for the contract has ownership of the code. My company > also maintains the ability to let me use parts of code from one > project in another as long as no trade secrets are shared, but of > course in scripting, that's almost never an issue because we're not > dealing in trade secrets, or even really in the knowledge domain of > the apps we script, so much as we're dealing in accessibility issues. > In other words, I don't need to care what the fields on a screen mean, > but I do need to care that their contents are announced. But I > digress... > > I sell the code reusability concept to clients as the money savings > that it really represents. But unless I've put some of my own personal > time into developing something, I consider it owned by my company > (SSB) and by whichever client(s) paid for the work. I actually keep > lists of who owns what part of every project in this way, tied to the > code, so that when I go to, say, script for something like Skype or > TeamTalk or Zello or something else I'm giving out myself, I don't > include any code that I didn't partly or wholely develop on my own > time. > > The code for Silverlight was developed under a single contract and, as > I said, is specific to the screens involved in that contract. I sent > a message here earlier explaining some of the techniques I remember > coming up with during that effort, but I don't think I would be able > to post code blocks for that here, both because of how the code was > developed and because the code does deal specifically with client > screen content. > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 02:55:06PM +1000, Geoff Chapman wrote: > Ah. Sorry Doug I didn't see your last before I posted my other queery re > your telling us more specifically about your > Silverlight investigative offerings etc. > > Just on that though, If I understood arights, > you mentioned that you felt you couldn't divulge/release, specific code > that > you'd created, under contract to someone else. would you mind just > elaborating a bit on the nuts and bolts of the protocol around that? Like > I > mean, > when you script something for someone on a fee for service basis, do you > deem that they're not just paying you for your time, but they actually own > the code you create as well? and thus your no longer the owner of the > code, > to utilize or distribute to others as you might like? > > Is that how it works over there? > GC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:38 AM > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? > > >> Ah, that's what I meant when I said accNavigate did not work. The JAWS >> getObject*() calls probably do, but those only trace up through >> parents, not latterally. There's another type of object hierarchy >> demonstrated in the JAWS 13 Visual Studio 2010.jss file (see the >> BuildAccessibleTree() function and its callers), but I'm not sure >> if/where that one is documented yet. >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 06:13:39PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote: >> The MSAA object ID's. >> >> Dean >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Doug Lee >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 5:37 PM >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? >> >> Which object hierarchy do you mean? >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:03:20PM +0100, Sean Farrow wrote: >> Hi : >> Doug, can you remember whether GetNex/PreviousChild worked in the object >> hierarchy? >> I've got a Silverlight app I'll need to use at work for analysing log >> files. >> Cheers >> Sean. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Lee >> Sent: 18 June 2012 20:14 >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? >> >> Unfortunately, and like much of the scripting I do, the Silverlight >> scripting I did was part of a contract and is therefore not something I >> can >> just drop out in public. :) I can tell you a few things though. >> Some of the uncertainty here is for my lack of recollection... >> >> If GetFocusObject() won't get you an MSAA object, getObjectFromEvent on >> the >> Silverlight window with an objID of -4 (ObjID_Client) should. >> >>>From that MSAA object, obj.accFocus should get you the focused object, >>>for >>>which you can then get properties like accName, accDescription, etc. >> >> obj.accParent works too, so you can get parent properties up to the top >> level. accNavigate and indexing by childID does not work however. >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 02:52:48PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote: >> With earlier versions of Logos you could download the basic program with >> a >> couple of books for free but I didn't see anything like that on the >> current >> site. It is: >> >> http://www.logos.com/ >> >> Would you send us your Silverlite scripts so we could see what you did >> with >> that program? >> >> Dean >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Doug Lee >> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:37 PM >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? >> >> I've scripted for Microsoft Silverlight, which I believe shares much with >> WPF. Would be interesting to know what's available there. >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 07:54:01PM -0400, Dean Masters wrote: >> Logos 4 is based on wpf programming. So the only things JAWS can read is >> what Logos puts in the program. With the latest update you can open a >> book >> by using the library. then you can read the first line with a SayLine. >> Then >> if you hit the down arrow and do a SayLine it just scrolls the text a few >> words to the right. >> >> I wrote a lot of scripts for Logos 3 years ago but nothing in Logos 4 is >> scriptable. >> >> I think with Windows 8 JAWS won't be able to use the visual hooks like in >> earlier Windows so I wonder if we might be able to read the text with the >> normal keystrokes once the new version of JAWS comes out? >> >> They are trying to work on accessibility in Logos 4 but they onnly have >> the >> demo version of JAWS. They told me that with NVDA they can read the text >> on >> the screen. so that is why I am wondering if we might be able to when the >> new version of JAWS comes out. >> >> Dean >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Merv Keck >> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:50 PM >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? >> >> I have Logos 4 Platinum Edition but am still a basic beginner when it >> comes >> to scripting. However, I can tell you that Logos 4 is cloud based as >> opposed >> to Logos 3. Since losing most of my usuable vision about 15 months ago I >> have pretty much lost the ability to use many of my non -english language >> studies such as Hebrew, Greek, and Akkadian cuneiform. The read aloud >> drives me crazy and the accessibility features built into Logos 4 are >> problematic but I understand from some other blind Logos 4 users that >> they >> are trying to make Logos morfe accessible so I have high expectations >> especially since I have over 2,000 resources tied up into Logos since >> 2001 >> and don't want to give up on it. >> blind5sparrow >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Doug Lee >> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:39 PM >> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Can Logos 4 be scripted? >> >> If you're at all handy with Script Utility Mode, check out the window >> class >> name of the main window, whether it has descendants, and whether it has >> MSAA >> objects. If you have just a single window, no MSAA objects, and no OSM >> text >> (which is what you already discovered), you found a difficult case, and >> something like Hot Spot Clicker may be your best bet. If you see a window >> tree and/or a set of MSAA objects, it might be possible to script that. >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 05:07:49PM -0400, John Thomas wrote: >> Hi >> >> A few years ago I wrote a set of scripts for version 3 of the Logos Bible >> software program. A couple months after I finished, the Logos folks >> rolled >> out version 4. It is built on a totally different platform. My evaluation >> of >> version 4 is that it cannot be scripted. I just want to check my >> assumptions >> with the list here to see if my assessment is correct. >> >> I assume it cannot be scripted, because I cannot read any text with >> either >> the JAWS or Invisible cursor. The only thing I can read is the name of >> the >> program with the PC cursor. The cursor routing functions also do not >> work. >> With the previous version, I could use the invisible cursor to read any >> text >> that was visible to a sighted user. Since I cannot read anything with the >> JAWS or Invisible cursors, I assume there is really nothing I can do with >> version 4. Is this correct? >> >> Thanks, >> John >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group - >> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it >> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group - >> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it >> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group - >> Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it >> cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer >> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand >> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com >> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, >> it was done." --Helen Keller >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer >> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand >> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com >> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, >> it was done." --Helen Keller >> __________??? >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts >> > > __________??? > > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > > -- > Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer > SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand > mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com > "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, > it was done." --Helen Keller > __________??? > > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > __________??? View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts -- Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done." --Helen Keller __________� View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts