[jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
- From: "Tristram Llewellyn" <tris-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:22:41 +0100
If you locate the first of those number entry boxes and press tab does it
reliably go round those and tell you what they are from there. This I think is
what the David was having problems with. He seemed to be suggesting that
either the positioning was random and/or not being announced correctly.
The page I use to get into my bank does this all on the same page to let you go
in, however my credit card does the same sort ot thing in three pages which
seems less fun. I don't know whether this is security based or simply they
thought that the best form of design. Personally the way Nationwide do it is
very civilised I even found a hidden link for screen reader users describing
the last significant change to the sign in page.
Regards.
Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vanja Sudar
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
If this can help, the only thing I notice slightly differently from jaws 7.0
when using natwest is that once the first screen in which you have to enter
your customer number is past, jaws is not automiticly focused on first
editbox to enter a random digit from your pin, so the best thing in this
case is to do the following: either press shift+h or keep pressing h till
jaws says "your pin" then move the cursor down to the first edit box, which
will be the field for the first digit from your pin. The person with the
problem may be getting confused because after hitting next jaws is not
always focused on the first field so, like I said, make sure you first
locate the "your pin" headding then move the virtual cursor to the first
field and only then enter forms mode and enter your detials. HTH
Vanja
http://www.sudar.co.uk
MSN messenger: sudar23@xxxxxxxxxxx
AIM: vanja121
Skype: vanja121
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tristram Llewellyn" <tris-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
I have tested Jaws 7.10 with www.nationwide.co.uk banking sign in and that
works OK, the new DOM support isn't making anything more difficult here.
The systems accross most of these online banking systems are quite similar
in their operation. We also have one user on Natwest who is not
experiencing problems which is puzzling.
Regards.
Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
Brian,
Well done, it worked like a dream.
I've read your notes but I think I'll have to read them again. Thanks.
Regards
David
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: 26 June 2006 18:40
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
David,
Try this and let me know if it works.
1. Start internet explorer.
2. Bring up the conffiguration manager with insert and number 6 on the
main
qwerty keyboard.
3. Press alt S for set options, H for HTML options.
4. Shift tab back once to the property sheets and arrow right until you
reach miscellaneous.
5. Tab to the check box entitled "use legacy internet explorer support"
and
press space to check it.
6. Press enter to close the dialog.
7. Press control+s to save the file.
8. Press alt+F4 to quit the configuration manager.
NOTES
This procedure should revert back to legacy support for Internet Explorer.
There is no doubt that pages do behave very differently with the new IE
support, and you should only use legacy if everything else fails. My
reason
for saying that is clearly the new internet explorer support, delivered
via
the Document Object Model, is clearly the way Freedom Scientific intends
to
deliver web pages to us in the future. To that end, the more of us who
use
the new support and report to FS when things go wrong, the better. This
new
DOM support is hopefully a stepping stone to greater things in the years
to
come and we must support it whenever we can.
In addition to the differences in the rendering of pages, people will
notice
two distinct differences with new DOM support.
1. When you tab from one link or control to another, a yellow rectangle is
also present. One of the difficulties with jaws has historically been the
lack of visual feedback concerning precisely what jaws is saying. This
rectangle is an aid to sighted individuals. The difficulty for us is that
in
my view it makes the tab key less responsive. When you arrow through a
document, visual focus is not tracked.
2. Jaws is now better able to handle the difference between data and
layout
tables. For example, if you visit a site such as
www.tandt-consultancy.com
Where we have used a layout table to display information, jaws 7.0 and
before will announce the fact that you are entering and leaving a table.
As
blind people, we possibly don't care about that, but we do care about data
tables - those tables such as train time tables which need to be processed
in a tabular way. Jaws 7.10, using new DOM support, will not indicate the
presence of these layout tables which from a new user standpoint is very
good indeed.
I hope I have explained this new concept of Internet support clearly and
David, I hope my solution works for you.
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of David
Sent: 26 June 2006 18:06
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
Hi Tristram,
I have tested the Natwest webpage again with Jaws 7.0 and had no
difficulty
at all. I then had three attempts with Jaws 7.10 and failed.
Strangely, the second attempt allowed me to enter three digits in their
separate fields, or I thought so, then realised i had been asked to enter
the same number twice and that can't be right. I then entered a
character,
only one, and was shot to the top of the page again.
I have been in touch directly with S and S about this, can't remember the
gentleman's name. He suggested I try using the Insert F5 function which I
did, not successfully. In any case, it really should work as it does in
7.0.
I'll keep trying and report back.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tristram Llewellyn
Sent: 26 June 2006 15:22
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
Unfortunately I'm not a customer of theres so I cannot test this myself.
I
take it that if you go back to 7.0 things work out OK, and this is not a
coincidence that perhaps the bank have change their site as well?
Regards.
Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
The bank is the National Westminster and the website I use is
www.nwolb.co.uk
I tested it again five minutes ago and there is quite definitely a
problem.
I have used this site regularly for about a year and had no problems
until
Jaws 7.10.
I also noticed today that having entered my personal number on the first
page and pressed "next" it then asked me for my personal number again
but,
in fact, it should have been part of my pin number. Anyway, I did a
read
line and it asked me to enter the first character of my pin number which
I
did. It should then have taken me to the next field to enter another
pin
number but instead it asked me for the second character of my password.
I
knew this was not right but entered it as requested and it immediately
shot
me to the top of the page.
I don't like to mess around with this sort of site for long in case you
end
up having to re-register. I hope you understand all that.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tristram Llewellyn
Sent: 26 June 2006 10:47
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
Obviously not interested in your bank details but which bank is that you
are
having this problem with, perhaps someone else has the same bank and
could
compare notes with a view to finding what the problem is and then
possible
resolution.
Regards.
Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:23 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Something very anoying in the new update
Hi,
I have also had trouble with form fields with 7.10. Not quite the
same
as
you I think. What I am finding on a particular banking website is
entering
password digits in their individual fields. Normally you
automatically
start in field 1, then field 2 etc. but with 7.10 it seems to land on
any
random field and it doesn't reliably tell you wich. When I use this
website
now I go back to 7.0.
I have also noticed that some of the settings don't seem to have taken
effect with the Merge Utilities function. I might try running it
again.
I had trouble with Google some time ago when it kept on interrupting
everytime I went to a new field in a form. I found the problem in
Add/Remove Software. Forgotten what it was called but had "google" in
it.
Taking it out sorted it.
Things are not looking good I think with Jaws 7.1 at the moment but it
is
still a Beta version so can't moan I suppose.
Regards
David
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: 25 June 2006 23:01
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Something very anoying in the new update
Hi,
I am finding this new update a bit difficult to get used to. The main
reason is that on a web form, if you are arrowing through the form,
Jaws
before 7.10 read out the relevant field, then the edit box etc for you
to put the data into. However, what I am now finding is that Jaws is
reading some sort of attribute on the form entry fields, in addition
to
the data which is visible in the browser window, in effect reading the
data out twice for each arrow up/down. It is not therefore easy to
distinguish when you come to the edit field in a form, you have to use
different navigation commands to get you to the next edit field etc.
One clear example on this is at http://www.google.com, where I usually
quickly arrow down until I hear the words "edit", however, now I hear
the words "google search" read out twice, once for the text shown
above
the form field, and once again on the form field itself.
Is there any way to turn this feature off, so that I can hear the
description of the field by pressing a key or something?
Also, I realise that Brian has done a script for this, but I find
Outlook a bit annoying when you continually hear the same message read
out if you come to the bottom of the list. If you are viewing a
folder
with the new messages coming at the bottom, you don't know when you
reach the bottom of the list easily, because you continually hear the
last message in the list, which makes it seem like that person wrote
loads of messages.
Thanks.
Andrew.
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