[jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

  • From: "Robin Clayden" <r.clayden@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:51:42 +0100

Hi Tim, Phil and Maggie,

Thanks to you all for your feedback. Didn't have much joy by saving it
as .rtf, but as Phil suggested, I unprotected the document via the tools
menu, was then able to read, navigate and even add comments and edit
options easily. Then I just resaved the document.

That worked a treat, so I'll just zapp it back to them with a few
comments.

I find it incredible that such an innocuous document can so easily screw
up our wonderful world leading Jaws screen reader... But also, when
you're dealing with blind and VI users and completing and editting
forms, why on earth do they worry about layout and presentation, keep it
plain and simple! *steam*

Being into web design a bit myself, it's not even that difficult that
they could put a good accessible electronic online form up on their
website for completion, instead of this e mail attachment idea.=20

Cheers, Robin.
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
Sent: 20 April 2006 10:20
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Hi Robin,

It's the bit about navigation and editing being restricted that's the
giveaway.  Try saving it as RTF and see if you can navigate it more
easily, or select, copy and paste the whole lot into another document.
It was something like this that got me out of the problem, but I can't
remember exactly what.  As I said, I'd get back to the GDBA if I were
you, as if you fix it privately, then they'll continue to send the form
out to others who will duplicate your effort.

Regards,

Tim=3D20

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
Sent: 20 April 2006 10:05
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

Hi Tim, Phil, Maggie,

Routing jfw to pc you can read through the document with the arrow keys
no problem, but to attempt editting answers, well it's a nightmare.
Here's what the F1 help said about it Tim,

You can type text in this edit field or navigate using standard reading
commands. This is a document window. This is an Edit form field in which
you can type information. Edit the text with standard editing commands.
To move between fields use Tab and Shift+Tab. This is a cell in column 2
row 4 in table 1 which has 6 rows. The table is non-uniform, which means
that each row may have a varying number of columns, or a cell may span
more than one row. This particular row has 2 columns. At least one cell
in this table spans more than one column. The document contains 2
tables. The document contains 49 fields. The document contains 1 objects
in the drawing layer.  JAWS can only detect objects in the Text Layer.
To attempt to place Drawing Layer objects in the Text Layer press
Alt+Control+Shift+C.
Document protection status is:
Allow only form fields
This means that navigation and editing is restricted.
Grammar is checked as you type.


For Office XP:
List smart tags in this document  JAWSKey+Alt+Shift+S Show Smart Tag
Actions menu  JAWSKey+Control+Alt+S=3D3D20


Cheers, Robin.
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
Sent: 20 April 2006 09:52
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Robin,

I've had the same problem, and as Phil Medway says, its probably caused
by the document having been set up as a form which is always going to
give JAWS problems.  You can find out by hitting insert-f1.  JAWS should
tell you if it has been set as a form.  I remember having to do
something involving removing password control over the document with
which I had this problem, but I'd have thought its really down to the
GDBA to get this sorted out.  If anyone can be expected to supply
accessible documents to blind people it ought to be them.  Have you
tried telling the person that supplied you with the form that you can't
fill it in?  They must have come across this problem before, though this
may be yet another symptom of the problems caused by the
decentralisation of the association.

Regards,

Tim Pennick=3D3D3D20

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
Sent: 20 April 2006 08:55
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Editting a Word doc, format problem?

Hi all,

It's difficult to explain what is happening here without maybe someone
on here accepting the document as an attachment off list and looking at
it for themselves.

Basically it's a guide dog monthly report form I need to complete and
return to GDBA Forfar, but Jaws just doesn't read it well at all. It's
in .doc format and tables layout, and tabbing or arrowing through it is
just a nightmare, skipping past questions etc. It is almost impossible
to navigate as you just don't have a consistent idea of your position in
the page.

I have tried it on both here and at home, fiddling around with the view
settings and the only bit of success in reading the thing is if I route
jfw to pc, but then that doesn't help when you need to insert comments
or answers to the questions. I had to save it as a text document, fill
in answers and then re save it back to .doc, but surely I shouldn't have
to faff around like that?

Anyone like to have a look?

Kind regards,

Robin Clayden, Switchboard.
Edinburgh College of Art.
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