[jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
- From: <tim.pennick@xxxxxx>
- To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:13:03 +0100
Tink,
Structured mode tries to put as much information on the braille display as
possible which might aid efficient use, e.g. information about the type of
Windows control e.g. edit box, dialogue etc. In a dialogue box, it will
display as much of the information from the dialogue box as as possible + the
button which currently has focus. When in Internet Explorer Structured mode
includes information such as row and column numbers when in tables, as well as
the information about what type of button etc. is currently on the display.
The idea of Line mode, is that it tries to give a more accurate representation
of what the screen looks like. this means that in dialogue boxes you can get a
much better idea of the layout of the box on the screen, and in IE it cuts down
a bit on the clutter on the display, but in IE it doesn't really give a very
accurate idea of the layout of the screen since it works on the Virtual view as
does the speech output. The difference Lin-mode makes with regard to your
question about edit boxes, is that it doesn't put up the 'ED' prompt, although
it does seem to indicated edit boxes with a Tilde in the first character of the
display.
Regards,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tink Watson
Sent: 18 August 2005 10:51
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
Tim,
Could you explain, to a non Braille user, a little more about the
difference between line mode and structured mode?
Thanks,
Tink.
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
Sent: 18 August 2005 10:14
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
Flor,
Isn't the short-form etc. independent of the type of braille display? I
think JAWS just sends a dot-pattern to the display, and the abbreviations
are set up in configuration manager possibly under Verbosity options or
Braille options.
I use speech and braille together (as you do), and I find that its easier to
get lost in a web site if I'm not listening to the speech. The way fields
like edit boxes etc. are displayed, also depends on whether you are using
structured or line mode to read the site, and also whether you are arrowing
up and down the page, or using your braille display navigation keys.
However, as you say, if you are aware that you're looking for an edit box,
you can take the appropriate action such as using one of the JAWS navigation
keys to find it. I think that place-holding text is more often than not,
very confusing. as it is sometimes deleted once you start to type, and
sometimes gets appended to your entry.
Regards,
Tim Pennick
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: 17 August 2005 18:07
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
Hi Tink,
yes. Your understanding is correct. Now, to disclose my own practice.
I use both or either speech and/or braille. (I think that older braille
displays which don't have the shortforms - such as lnk for link, ed for
edit, etc. - would render the word edit in ful.) Older versions of screen
readers, or different screen readers? There we may be in different
territory. You may want to hear from more braille-display users before
proceeding. I have not so far experienced any particular difficulties
vis-a-vis using braille versus speech, reading Web sites in JAWS6.2.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tink Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:45 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
Flor,
Thanks. So, if I understand you correctly, a person using Braille
feedback, encountering an empty edit field for the first time, would
find
the Braille symbols for the word, "ed", given in whichever Grade of
Braille
was selected in the configuration of Jaws?
Sorry to be precise about this, but I'd like to be sure I have my
facts absolutley right before I go wading in with the answer!
Thanks again.
Tink.
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: 17 August 2005 17:43
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Braille displays and web forms.
Hi Tink,
I believe that JAWS-using braille display users will see the symbol "ed"
(written in either Grade I or grade II braille - according to their
preference set, and without the quotes.) which indicates that an edit
field
is present, with/without text already there. At that point, they may
enter
Forms Mode. Also, it's possible to use JAWS mnemonics to locate the
field,
i.e., e for Edit; b for Button; f for Form Element, etc.; (and with
shift
those letters go back to the previous same field).
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tink Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Access UK" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Jaws UK"
<jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Window Eyes" <gw-info@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
<bcab-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Braille displays and web forms.
Good afternoon,
Apologies for the cross post. Hoping some refreshable Braille
display users can help with the following...
If a form on a web page contains an edit box, and the edit box
doesn't have any place holding text already in it, can a person using
only
Braille with their screen reader detect that the edit box is present?
It's been suggested that unless some text is already given in the
box, perhaps, "Enter your name here", then the box isn't detectable.
The second part of my enquiry, if the above suggestion holds true,
is whether a space entered into the box would make any difference to the
detection of the edit box.
To give all this some context, we're trying to find a solution that
works for audio and Braille feedback screen reader users. All too often,
when information is entered into an edit box that already contains some
text, the two get combined and you end up with something like, "Enter
your
name here John Smith".
There are JavaScript solutions that automatically delete the
existing text from the box, when the user tabs to it, but if you are one
of
the estimated 10% of Internet users without JavaScript, this doesn't
help.
The next idea was to do away with using any place holding text in an
edit box all together, which is when the possibility of Braille users
not
being able to identify edit boxes was brought up.
Hope you'll be able to help, these solutions are usually all the
better for actually talking to the people using these technologies.
*Smile.
Thanks,
Tink.
--
http://www.tink.co.uk/
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