[jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

  • From: Barry Toner <barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:19:51 +0100

Done, unsubscribed.

Regards,
Barry
List Admin.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Richard Boichat
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:34 PM
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Hiya

I am monitoring Richards email account as he has now left the firm.  Please can 
you remove him from this email chain.  For anything which needs to be passed 
over to his replacement analyst please email helpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxx

Bal Ghataora
Helpdesk Team Leader
Wragge & Co
telephone +44 (0)870 903 1000
direct line +44 (0)121 260 9899
website www.wragge.com <http://www.wragge.com/>

________________________________

From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Alex Stone - CW
Sent: Wed 07/09/2011 11:55
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut



To someone actually working in a job, I once asked Eric Damery about
this and that's what he told me.
Cheers
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of John SAVAGE
Sent: 07 September 2011 11:15
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut

Breaking my promise of ten minutes ago!  But only to raise a technical
point.  "Job Access With Speech" is correct.  But surely this refers to
"job" in the IT sense: a running application.
John.
----- Original Message -----
From: "the gamages" <james.gamage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 11:03 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut


> Hello Barry,
> You are right of course, but it's a very small specialist market that
we
> are
> talking about, have you tried the latest NVDA? these people are coming

> along
> in leaps and bounds, already the program is quite adequate for all
> everyday
> aspects of computing. I have Jaws 12 and have no intention of getting
any
> more updates at the moment, now, if everyone made up their mind to
take
> that
> view of the situation, Freedom Scientific may just take notice, but
it's
> not
> going to happen is it?  Jaws is aimed at people in work and it's
needed in
> that environment, after all, I think the initials stand for "Job
access
> with
> speech",
> So employers pay for the program in many cases, do they do that
because
> they
> are in ignorance of other screen readers? or is it that the others
don't
> give enough access for business activities?
> As I understand it, Government departments along with many businesses
use
> Jaws for their visually impaired employees, so it's these big players
who
> should be making all the noise, however, it's good to have a moan and
get
> things off our chest, take care now and watch the blood pressure,
[smile].
>
> Jim.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Barry Toner
> Sent: 07 September 2011 10:37
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> The thing is though.  Providing the customers keep coming back, what
> insentive does this offer the company to improve?  Business is all
about
> profits, regardless of any moral high grounds any of them try to take.
>
> Regards,
> Barry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of the gamages
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:35 AM
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hello folks,
> may I introduce a slightly different aspect of this debate? I have two
> computers, one is using XP  and the other is Windows seven, I have a
lot
> of
> old programs on the XP computer and Jaws 8 works quite well with them,
so
> I
> use Jaws 8 with these, [the only thing which doesn't is Internet
Explorer
> 8,
> so I use Jaws 12 with that].
> My Windows seven computer has office 2010 and some fairly newish
stuff, so
> I
> use Jaws 12 on that along with NVDA.
> The point I am trying to make is that Jaws 12 may not be very friendly

> with
> some older programs or operating systems, so I use Jaws 8 with these,
if
> you
> had an old 1960s Volkswagon beetle, you could hardly expect an
alternator
> for a modern Volkswagon Polo to work with it could you.
> Perhaps that's not a very good analogy, but I'm sure you get the idea.
> I'm not making excuses for Freedom Scientific, because some things
still
> need sorting out in Jaws 12 for newer programs, these are faults and
they
> should be addressed without having to shell out for expensive updates.
> However, sometimes it's better to use an older version of Jaws if it
works
> better with older stuff. I know that was not the case with the
original
> point in this debate, that should be sorted out now and not be left
until
> a
> huge charge can be made for an update, if we buy something in a shop
and
> it's faulty, we take it back and get the problem resolved, in the U K
this
> is covered by the Sale of goods act, I don't know what that equates to
in
> the States, if it's not fit for purpose, then we have some redress.
> It is still the case that Jaws is still the most usable program, until

> that
> changes, we are stuck with it, but I think any business should think
> carefully before ignoring the complaints of their customers.
>
> Jim.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Darren H
> Sent: 07 September 2011 09:56
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Sorry, that's a bit of a cop out.
>
> Just because we're blind, shouldn't we expect the kind of service from
our
> access providers that we do eveyrone else?
>
> If Jaws was a mainstream program with a good deal of other providers
> available, it would never stand up to scrutiny.
>
> It only survives because it's the best of a fairly poor bunch.
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Alex Stone - CW
> Sent: 07 September 2011 09:55
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Darren, it is unfortunate, however, even if there was any useful
> competition
> we'd only end up with a cartel rather than the current monopoly.
> Cheers
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Darren H
> Sent: 06 September 2011 17:25
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Hi.
>
> It is just unfortunate that jaws hasn't got any competition to speak
of.
>
> For all it's faults, it still seems to do a better job than any other
> screen
> reader I've tried.
>
> Which obviously means, they can do what they jolly well please and
we'll
> just have to go along with it.
>
> Yes, of course businesses are there to make a profit.
>
> But the idea of business is to make a profit with a product that works
> correctly and as intended, not half do a job but know that people will
> purchase anyway because they have to.
>
> I'm in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford the
> upgrades, but for those that aren't, it's a real pain in the gonads.
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Amie Slavin
> Sent: 06 September 2011 17:15
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> But I don't think I do need to put myself in their position.  I'm a
> customer, a consumer.  It is for them to put themselves, as a
> profit-making
> business, in my position.  Even as a self-employed sole trader I
wouldn't
> dream of using my need for income as an excuse for monopolising a
captive
> market with a substandard product.  Neither would any of the business
> people
> of my acquaintance.  It is for businesses to serve customers; not the
> other
> way around.
> Bang :o) (for Tom)
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Graham Page
> Sent: 06 September 2011 16:12
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> Amie yes I'm afraid you are rather going off on one.  You need to put
> yourself in the position of the manufacturer of the screenreader who
> relies
> on the screenreader sales for income.
>
> Yes there are problems with the over all model.  Yes I have problems
with
> some aspects of the way freedom scientific in particular chooses to do
> business i.e. aggressive use of law suits.
> It is interesting to note that while apple  has developed its own
> screenreader, there is also some suggestion at least that the next
version
> of windows 8 will have a more useful screenreader built in.
>
> I do hope that there will come a time when expensive screenreaders
that
> cost
> more than the hardware they run on will not be required as they will
be
> part
> of the operating system but if programmers and technical support
people
> have
> to live off the revenue of sales from a screenreader it is likely to
be
> expensive.
>
> Regards
>
> Graham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Amie Slavin
> Sent: 06 September 2011 14:24
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut
>
> For sure, just as I'm looking at JAWS 12.  What a confounded rip-off
the
> whole racket is.
> Well done us for not swearing (lol) when, yet again, confronted with
this
> very old chestnut, centring on blind people being an easy target for
those
> intent on making money out of tech sighted people would laugh out of
the
> water.
> Anyway, here I go, off on one: chunter chunter chunter.
> Thanks Tom, for pointing this out.  Important info.
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 06 September 2011 14:17
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] An old chestnut
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've gone on for some time about access 2003--7 not being read
properly
> under xp. the tab is silent.
>
> Through sightandsound, we have a reply from F s saying that it is a
known
> issue under xp and vista.
>
> here's the punch line, though, it is scheduled to be fixed under jaws
13.
>
> I've got an sma for this so may be okay if it is fixed, but, what
about
> those who haven't.
>
> Surely, this is not good enough.
>
> anybody affected should raise this.
>
> tom
>
>
>
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> -----
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> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date:
09/05/11
>
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> ----------
> Action for Blind People is an expert national organisation, ensuring
blind
> and partially sighted people get practical support in all aspects of
their
> lives.
>
> In April 2009 Action for Blind People became part of RNIB Group, in an
> innovative partnership combining regional service delivery across
England.
> This partnership enables both organisations to share skills and
deliver
> services in line with the UK Vision Strategy.
>
> For more information phone us through the RNIB Helpline on 0303 123
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>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 6442 (20110906) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 6442 (20110906) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/>
>
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----------
Action for Blind People is an expert national organisation, ensuring blind and 
partially sighted people get practical support in all aspects of their lives.

In April 2009 Action for Blind People became part of RNIB Group, in an 
innovative partnership combining regional service delivery across England. This 
partnership enables both organisations to share skills and deliver services in 
line with the UK Vision Strategy.

For more information phone us through the RNIB Helpline on 0303 123 9999 or 
visit our fully accessible website.
www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk

Company Registration no: (England and Wales 26688)
Registered Charity no: 205913 (England and Wales) SC040050 (Scotland)

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