[jaws-uk] Re: Accounting Packages
- From: "Mullins, Chris" <Chris.Mullins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:37:03 -0000
Jim
I didn't interpret what George was saying as "10% of VI's only wanting to learn
basic
computer access". I interpret it as that in excess of 10% of computer users
require purely keyboard access to applications but companies such as Sage, by
not incorporating accessibility into their product are missing out on potential
business.
Cheers
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Williams
Sent: 14 March 2007 12:18
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Accounting Packages
George,
The more people know about this the better.
I understand what you mean about 10% of VI's only wanting to learn basic
computer access, this can be borne out by the number of people in colleges
today who are struggling to find employment because they cannot compete with
sighted people who have a much wider choice of courses at higher levels to
choose from.
My overriding concern is that while such applications as Sage are "off
limit" to visually impaired people then their chances of gaining employment
are limited by what can be taught at colleges and the like.
Jim Williams
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 13 March 2007 23:03
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Accounting Packages
Hi Jim,
I'm copying this to specific persons at Freedom Scientific,
the JAWS main dealer in the U.K., and a contact of mine at
SAGE UK.
In all fairness to Freedom Scientific, Sage is almost
exclusively a UK Package. (Though of late it does handle
those funny Euros)
Technically, responsibility for persuading Freedom
Scientific to custom write code to access it tends to lie
with the UK distributor.
That said, and in fairness, it is a question of supply and
demand. My own company uses Sage 2007, and right now .....
I'd better not say what I want to.
Basically SAGE has a "not accessible" reputation, and so is
disregarded, especially by charities for blind people.
That said again, I believe RNIB use a derivative of Sage,
and my understanding is that RNIB have spent a lot of money
on getting JAWS scripts written to access Sage. Personally
speaking, such work is simply a means of bypassing poorly
written screen code.
But yet again, Sage themselves do appear to be rather slow
in getting to grips with the requirements of the DDA.
In defence of Sage, their software has a great deal to offer
people in businesses both small and large.
What they seem to fail to realise is that, as Microsoft have
discovered, in excess of 10% of computer users need purely
keyboard access.
And if SAGE's shareholders actually got to grips with those
figures?........
George W F Bell, Managing Director
Techno-Vision Systems Ltd
76 Bunting Road Ind. Est.
NORTHAMPTON, NN2 6EE
Tel: 01604 792777
Fax: 01604 792726
e-mail: george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.techno-vision.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim
Williams
Sent: 13 March 2007 22:32
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Accounting Packages
George,
Sorry the first part of my message related to other problems
I have had in
Excel and Access, I know they are nothing to do with Sage.
However, I was
refering more to the FS response to my origional query which
mentioned Sage
and their response to that.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of George
Bell
Sent: 13 March 2007 22:09
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Accounting Packages
This does not really address the issue of accounting
packages like SAGE.
These are not necessarily based on Access or Excel, and
indeed SAGE uses a FOXPRO database.
All that aside, it boils down to plain old fashioned
navigation.
Very few, if any, cut the mustard.
George.
-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim
Williams
Sent: 13 March 2007 18:36
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Accounting Packages
Hi Listers,
For those who were following George Bell's description of
problems with
accounting packages and maybe other products, I'm enclosing
the copy of an
e-mail (and its reply) I sent to FS a couple of weeks ago.
If enough people
take up the idea of contacting FS about such problems we may
get some
action.
Here's hoping.
Jim Williams
To: Training_Info
Subject: PowerPoint, Excel and Access, From:
jwbr33694@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Products section - training
subject description PowerPoint, Excel and Access
Comment or suggestion = In future versions can more emphasis
be put on
solving problems with the above. In PowerPoint and Excel it
is not
possible to access the colour palate to identify
colours/shades as you
can
in Word. Also in PP, Excel and Word when you have an image
on screen it is
not always possible to tell if you have selected the image
in order to move
or edit it.
There are other problems with "drag and drop" with images,
especially in
Excel where you can only move in small increments and even
then only
With sighted assistance. This is fine in a college or
training setting but
not much good in a work environment where you need to
demonstrate
independence.
In Access there is virtually no speech when using Reports
can this be
improved please?
Finally, does JAWS support finance packages such as SAGE. I
am a former
Bookkeeper but since losing my sight I have not been able to
continue that
career because of the lack of speech on such packages.
Many thanks for the opportunity to put these views across
and if any of
the above queries have already been answered please accept
my apologies.
Jim Williams
Hi, Jim. Thanks very much for your suggestions. I will
forward them on
to suggestions@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and you may certainly
write there
as well with future ones.
Regarding the access of programs, such as the accounting
programs you
mention, one thing you should keep in mind is that, and this
is a very
key point, if a program is well written and designed with
the common
building blocks, so to speak, that Microsoft suggests, it
can generally
be read right out of the box with JAWS. Nothing more is
required. What I
have seen in many programs that are not accessible is that
programmers
do not use Microsoft standards, but instead, use proprietary
or poorly
designed principles from the ground up when they build their
programs.
If they do that, sometimes we can use scripting with JAWS to
get a work
around. Often, though, it becomes almost impossible to do,
especially if
there are a lot of graphical items involved and little or no
keyboard
access.
JAWS, of course, stands for Job Access With Speech, so when
our team
looks at making attempts to have JAWS read or work better in
a program,
we often have to ask ourselves "how many people are affected
in the work
environment by the efforts we put into the project?" So some
things
obviously get a higher priority than others. Other factors
can involve
the manufacturer of the software in question. For example,
are they
interested in trying to re-write their software to make it
more
accessible, or not? Unfortunately, some just don't care, it
seems.
Finally, we are not that big of a company in the scheme of
world-wide
companies like Microsoft, Adobe, Symantec, and so on. Our
resources have
to be balanced among a lot of different software packages
that we
support.
I'm not trying to discourage you at all. I just want you to
know we do
appreciate what you are saying and again, I will forward
that on to
suggestions here. Hopefully, this will give you some insight
as to how
we try to do things, and one of those is definitely
listening to our
users!
Thank you again and best regards,
Dan Clark
Freedom Scientific Training Department
danC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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