[jaws-uk] Re: Accessible PDFs, the acid test. Was: Browsealoud and Jaws

  • From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:43:42 -0000



George reading with care again, do you mean the original Document is first written in for example Word or excell then? I know my computer Engineer sends his invoices in Pdf, I asked him why he said"it is proper business practise" he then pointed to my scanner and a button and said I could write my own I have an Epson Perfection,so I wonder if many on Jaws list write their own Pdf Documents?. Looking over the pdf documents I have the best I think are still written by Land Registry ,I have had to look at adjoining properties to examine Easements and Restrictive Covenants, considering the language is often a bit archaic, and has no punctuation they read very well I suppose I could ask our local land Registry who writes them I suppose they commision a Company Regards Dorothy

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Accessible PDFs, the acid test. Was: Browsealoud and
Jaws




Thanks george for expanding on this topic, I may  not i know get at plans
and drawings I know that but information on a Public website  should be
readable by Adobe I have Version 9, incidentally the company in surrey is
called Verseone technologies, and I have spoken to them twice, one man
will
phone me after the seminar to tell me how it goes, they have a number of
Speakers I think a Mr warren of User right I am not sure of spelling and
another I think David Sexton, I did make notes on a tape but mislaid it. I
hope I have not been unfair to my Mp, it is true I will not feel happy
until
I speak to him face to face but his Personal Assistant did help me to have
the Meeting with  our Director of Communications and other members
including
the webrighter or her  assistant and  other staff regarding access in
town.
I am lucky in having a very good OCR
with K11, but  the Websites must be
available to all and if the Government really  wants  all Councils to meet
certain
standards by next year how will this be done? another man
at verseone said out of
all Local Authorities only a small percentage have even Grade 1. We cannot
all
as  another person said at the Company  take legal Action he was of the
opinion that only hard case Law would bring real change

thanks
Dorothy


----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Accessible PDF, the acid test. Was: Browsealoud and
Jaws


This may or may not help, and will depend on a little co-operation
from the creator of the PDF.

First, it should be understood that documents are not created and
edited in PDF format.  A few seconds before a PDF document was
created, it existed in another application such as Word for Windows,
Excel, Quark, Adobe PageMaker or whatever. It may be that you can get
a Word file which would be ideal in this case.

Second, simply scanning a document into Word will only work if, once
in Word, the text can be edited by Word.  This involves an OCR process
to convert the scanned image into text. Otherwise the scan is simply
equivalent to a picture.

Third, like it or not, accept that there is nothing you can do easily
as regards plans, drawings, pictures and such like.  I stress "easily"
and may as well add "economically" to that.

Fourth, the acid test.  Can the resultant PDF be saved as Text, and
does the text in the file appear to be all there?  This does not
require anything more than Adobe Reader 9, which is free anyway.  Open
the PDF file in Adobe Reader, go to File, and select "Save as Text".

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in sending someone who knows
nothing about screen readers two PDF files, one accessible to you, the
other not.  They will see no difference.

Software is beginning to emerge which will examine PDF files, and even
modify the content to assist with accessibility.  However, if text has
been scanned, you have to accept that it is usually no different to a
photograph.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dorothy
Ingram-Gorban
Sent: 24 January 2009 18:32
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Browsealoud and Jaws



Thanks for that Tiddy but I have done my utmost even had one of them
up
here in front of Pc, taken in material from Equal Opps the DDA and
helpful
material from Sharon Hoyland, I have sent them in perfect PDF like the
one
on
local Hospital trust, and others they council sent which are "alert
empty
docs, I have had marvellous help from Clive and Phil on list.  and
have
tried for  many months to get to speak to my Mp, you know the
Government
expects all Local Authorities to have 2A  A standards by  next year,
if so
they must put some  push and shove at a Political level. I am  worn
out by
now. Thanks Dorothy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tiddy Ogg" <oggy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Browsealoud and Jaws


Dorothy, here's what Wiki says:
BrowseAloud assists internet users with dyslexia and reading
problems,
as well as those with mild visual impairments. By reading online
text
aloud and highlighting words or sentences as they are spoken,
comprehension can be substantially increased.

It is important to note that BrowseAloud's solution does not take a
non-accessible website and turn it into an accessible website.
Rather,
it offers free assistive technology for users. The original website
must
already comply with the technical and legislative requirements for
web
accessibility.


I could not get on to the home page, as they want cookies enabled,
and
the other site Wiki mentions as using it, the British Council
website,
was no-go with Jaws.
I can't see what your council hopes to do with this, but reading the
above, I doubt it'll be anything useful to anyone, as they appear to
have no clue about the WAI guidelines.


-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dorothy Ingram-Gorban
Sent: 23 January 2009 21:49
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Browsealoud and Jaws



Dear List, I know nothing about Browsealoud and wonder if you do I
have
tried for many months perhaps years to get my  local Council to
provide
material in a
manner I as a Jaws user can read. I have had the help of a very
clever
and
knowledgeable friend who has explained blow by blow why Jaws cannot
read
pictures.  Ihavehad to a lot of dealings with a particular
Department
and have given all information even had a Meeting with Director of
Communications, sent examples of material Jaws can read and those
which
say"alert Empty document. late today I was expecting important
information
and I am told it cannot be provided the person tried he said to turn
it
into
a word document but he couldn't do it,he said it is my software that
is
reason for the problem, I have the best software and OCR,I did get
the
promise a person who writes for their website for my Council will go
to
a
seminar next week I phone the company this afternoon, I was relieved
they
will be covering the DDA act but when I asked about the Screen
readers
they
would demonstrate  he mentioned Browsealoud and I do not think he
knew
much
about the main 3screenreaders, I am hoping he listened to me and
someone

will,meanwhile
can any of you tell me of your experience of Browsealoud please?

Thanks Dorothy

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