[isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
- From: "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:14:18 -0600
You can confirm that by looking at the SMTP logs on the ISA firewall and
the Exchange SMTP service.
Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:26 AM
> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
>
> I do love your 'no compromise' view on things sometimes Tom! :)
>
> I can't disagree, but sometimes customers are
> customers...it's hard enough to get Microsoft solutions into
> these types environments let alone 'rip and replace' all of
> the existing stuff.
>
> Anyhow, we are digressing here...so the upshot is that ISA
> *isn't* sending the 421 error, so this must be Exchange?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
> Sent: 27 February 2008 15:20
> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
>
> OK, so the answer is to remove the extraneous freeware relay
> in front of
> the Exchange relay. Why do they need two relays, one of which
> appears to
> be non-RFC and is causing problems because it wants to relay spam?
>
> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> Site: www.isaserver.org
> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:16 AM
> > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> >
> > Actually, the Exchange SMTP servers *are* on an anonymous
> > access DMZ behind ISA. All communications from the Unix mail
> > relays are then server published, SMTP filtered and source
> > restricted to the servers on the anon DMZ.
> >
> > So what we really have is:
> >
> > Internet => Unix Mail Relays on untrusted network => ISA =>
> > Exchange SMTP mail relays on anon access DMZ => Exchange
> > Backend Servers on ISA protected network.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
> > Sent: 27 February 2008 15:10
> > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> >
> > OK, so this is a simple borked network design. The SMTP relay is
> > supposed to be on a anonymous DMZ segment *behind* the ISA firewall.
> > That completely fixes the problem and also fixes the borked network
> > security design.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> > Site: www.isaserver.org
> > Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> > Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> > MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:06 AM
> > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > >
> > > No, just meant to represent any old mail server on the Internet.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas
> W Shinder
> > > Sent: 27 February 2008 15:04
> > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > >
> > > Are the remote mail relays the customer's?
> > >
> > > Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> > > Site: www.isaserver.org
> > > Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> > > Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> > > MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:57 AM
> > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > >
> > > > e.g. Remote Mail Relays => Internet => Internal Unix Mail
> > > > Relays => ISA => Exchange
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > Sent: 27 February 2008 14:51
> > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > >
> > > > It forces the Unix relays to queue all subsequent email once
> > > > it happens. Hence they get backlogs on the mail relays...
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas
> > W Shinder
> > > > Sent: 27 February 2008 14:49
> > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > >
> > > > Hi Jason,
> > > >
> > > > What I don't get is why they care if some spammer's
> > > computer gets its
> > > > queue loaded up when it tries to send spam to their
> > Exchange Server
> > > > behind the ISA Firewall.
> > > >
> > > > What am I missing here?
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> > > > Site: www.isaserver.org
> > > > Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> > > > Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> > > > MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:45 AM
> > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > >
> > > > > They won't allow me to disable the SMTP filter at this time
> > > > > as they are not sure if the Unix servers can provide the same
> > > > > level of application-level protection, how ironic :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I get alerts in the monitoring section of the ISA console
> > > > > when it happens - from what I understand the CR CR . CR CR is
> > > > > contained within the message body of rogue (spam) messages.
> > > > >
> > > > > If ISA doesn't respond with the SMTP error code, I guess this
> > > > > must be Exchange - but surely ISA had prevented this
> > connection???
> > > > >
> > > > > I have tested it manually or personally...if you want more
> > > > > details the guy has posted on some sendmail forums here:
> > > > > http://www.webservertalk.com/message2285500.html
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor
> > > > > (Hammer of God)
> > > > > Sent: 27 February 2008 14:18
> > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > >
> > > > > You've directly connected to the SMTP server via ISA
> > and manually
> > > > > entered the character sequence to verify this? With the
> > > SMTP filter
> > > > > applied, I don't get this error. Further, like I said last
> > > > time, you
> > > > > don't get SMTP error messages when the filter trigger
> > > terminates the
> > > > > connection - it just terminates.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I'm assuming you've disabled the SMTP filter and
> > > > everything works?
> > > > >
> > > > > t
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-
> > > > > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:08 AM
> > > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Feedback:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Absolutely. And that's why "<CR>.<CR>" should
> just be passed
> > > > > straight
> > > > > > through like any other random sequence of characters, and
> > > > not cause
> > > > > the
> > > > > > session to abort with a "Syntax error" ..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me know if this is pushing the boundaries of the
> > > > > mailing list and
> > > > > I
> > > > > > will get them to log a PSS call. If not, keep posting!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jason Jones | Security | Silversands Limited | Desk:
> > +44 (0)1202
> > > > > 360489
> > > > > > | Mobile: +44 (0)7971 500312 | Email/MSN:
> > > > > jason.jones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-
> > > > > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
> > > > > > Sent: 26 February 2008 22:55
> > > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tell them I said to read RFC 2821:
> > > > > > http://rfc.net/rfc2821.html#s4.1.1.4
> > > > > > <quote>
> > > > > > The mail data is terminated by a line containing only a
> > > > period, that
> > > > > > is, the character sequence "<CRLF>.<CRLF>"
> > > > > > </quote>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They didn't say "something almost, but not quite
> > totally unlike
> > > > > > <CRLF>.<CRLF>".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-
> > > > > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:02 PM
> > > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Guys,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's more background below. From what I can tell the
> > > only way to
> > > > > > prevent this is to disable the SMTP filter for the
> > > publishing rule
> > > > > that
> > > > > > provide access from the Unix mail relays to Exchange. I was
> > > > > hoping for
> > > > > > something a little more granular but can't see how to do
> > > > this in the
> > > > > > GUI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JJ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -------
> > > > > > If Unix forwards a message to ISA / Exchange terminated
> > > > > with "CR CR .
> > > > > > CR CR" the ISA smtp filter drops the connection and
> > > > returns a 421
> > > > > > 5.5.2 error, (rather than dropping/rejecting the message)
> > > > > this causes
> > > > > > the mail queues on the Unix servers to back-up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it possible to change the status code ISA
> Returns to a more
> > > > > > appropriate code, or otherwise ignore this check?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The email below explains in a bit more detail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Okay, so it's ISA not Exchange, but ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are getting messages stuck in our queues on
> their way into
> > > > > Exchange.
> > > > > > The ISA server replies with
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 421 5.5.2 Syntax error (invalid DATA termination)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and the messages are held with
> > > > > >
> > > > > > xxx@xxxxxx Deferred: 421 5.5.2 Syntax error (invalid DATA
> > > > > termination)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a problem, since it is interpreted as a
> > temporary server
> > > > > > failure and a request to try again later, effectively
> > > blocking all
> > > > > > further mail to that server on that queue run, and
> > > > leaving a backlog
> > > > > of
> > > > > > messages in the queue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the Microsoft site says that means
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "SMTP filter encountered an invalid DATA terminator
> > > Some character
> > > > > > combinations in DATA may pose a security risk. The
> > > > > connection has been
> > > > > > terminated.
> > > > > > SMTP filter event
> > > > > > Invalid DATA termination"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it appears the cause is the occurrence of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CR CR . CR CR
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in the message, accepted and passed on by our
> > > > > sendmail-based relays .
> > > > > > It appears that ISA will not accept this, and returns a 421
> > > > > response,
> > > > > > meaning try again later. This seems wrong, since
> it is not a
> > > > > temporary
> > > > > > failure, and the message will never be delivered. Surely
> > > > the correct
> > > > > > thing to do is either accept the message, or reject
> it with a
> > > > > permanent
> > > > > > failure so that the sender can be notified.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any way to disable or modify this behaviour
> > > within ISA ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-
> > > > > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
> > > > > > Sent: 26 February 2008 17:58
> > > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: SMTP Filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What - you want to add the \r\r.\r\r in the filter
> > definitions?
> > > > > > Is this sequence sent with or without actual mail content?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-
> > > > > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jason Jones
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:37 AM
> > > > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [isapros] SMTP Filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any way to modify the ISA SMTP filter behaviour
> > > > outside of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > GUI?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have a customer who is getting a weird error from the
> > > > SMTP filter
> > > > > > when the *data* portion contains "CR CR . CR CR". The
> > > > > problem is that
> > > > > > instead of rejecting the connection, as I would have
> > > expected, the
> > > > > > filter returns a 421 error, which essentially means
> > > "syntax error
> > > > > > (invalid data termination), try again later" causing a
> > > > > backlog on the
> > > > > > upstream SMTP server.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am guessing this is a log with PSS job to determine if
> > > > > the behaviour
> > > > > > is a bug, or by design...just wondered in anyone had
> > any similar
> > > > > > experiences or thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JJ
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > Company Registration Number : 2141393.
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
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> > > > is addressed. If you have received this email in error, or
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> > > > If this email contains a quotation then unless otherwise
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> > > > copy of which is available on request. Any pricing
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> > > > specific Silversands' staff contained in this email is
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> > > >
> > > > Any view or opinions presented are solely those of the author
> > > > and do not necessarily represent those of Silversands
> > > >
> > > > Silversands Limited, 3 Albany Park, Cabot Lane, Poole, BH17 7BX.
> > > > Company Registration Number : 2141393.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> > > and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it
> > > is addressed. If you have received this email in error, or
> > > if you believe this email is unsolicited and wish to be
> > > removed from any future mailings, please contact our Support
> > > Desk immediately on 01202 360360 or email
> helpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > If this email contains a quotation then unless otherwise
> > > stated it is valid for 7 days and offered subject to
> > > Silversands Professional Services Terms and Conditions, a
> > > copy of which is available on request. Any pricing
> > > information, design information or information concerning
> > > specific Silversands' staff contained in this email is
> > > considered confidential or of commercial interest and exempt
> > > from the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
> > >
> > > Any view or opinions presented are solely those of the author
> > > and do not necessarily represent those of Silversands
> > >
> > > Silversands Limited, 3 Albany Park, Cabot Lane, Poole, BH17 7BX.
> > > Company Registration Number : 2141393.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> > and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it
> > is addressed. If you have received this email in error, or
> > if you believe this email is unsolicited and wish to be
> > removed from any future mailings, please contact our Support
> > Desk immediately on 01202 360360 or email helpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > If this email contains a quotation then unless otherwise
> > stated it is valid for 7 days and offered subject to
> > Silversands Professional Services Terms and Conditions, a
> > copy of which is available on request. Any pricing
> > information, design information or information concerning
> > specific Silversands' staff contained in this email is
> > considered confidential or of commercial interest and exempt
> > from the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
> >
> > Any view or opinions presented are solely those of the author
> > and do not necessarily represent those of Silversands
> >
> > Silversands Limited, 3 Albany Park, Cabot Lane, Poole, BH17 7BX.
> > Company Registration Number : 2141393.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it
> is addressed. If you have received this email in error, or
> if you believe this email is unsolicited and wish to be
> removed from any future mailings, please contact our Support
> Desk immediately on 01202 360360 or email helpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> If this email contains a quotation then unless otherwise
> stated it is valid for 7 days and offered subject to
> Silversands Professional Services Terms and Conditions, a
> copy of which is available on request. Any pricing
> information, design information or information concerning
> specific Silversands' staff contained in this email is
> considered confidential or of commercial interest and exempt
> from the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
>
> Any view or opinions presented are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Silversands
>
> Silversands Limited, 3 Albany Park, Cabot Lane, Poole, BH17 7BX.
> Company Registration Number : 2141393.
>
>
>
>
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