[isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
- From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:34:49 -0700
Absolutely - my point (still stands) is that we need to determine a usable,
discoverable metric for "Joe WizardAddict"...
Telling them to open perfmon, select counters <blah1>, <blah2>, etc. watch them
for three days or until the beer evaporates....
..isn't going to go over well.
________________________________
From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Amy Babinchak
Sent: Mon 5/22/2006 4:56 PM
To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
I haven't played with it but since point of SQL Express was to make all
of the database formats consistent wouldn't it play by the SQL rules and
be automatically compatible?
All this talk about Express, doesn't negate my request for a rule of
thumb on the MSDE. We still need that.
Amy
-----Original Message-----
From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:48 PM
To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
..except that ISA 2006 still uses MSDE...
-------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org <http://isatools.org/>
Read the help / books / articles!
-------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 16:14
To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
I don't think that fine manual has been written yet. I would think that
the ISA 2006 manual writers would be considering it since SQL Express
falls squarely into the life cycle for ISA 2006.
Amy
-----Original Message-----
From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 6:57 PM
To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
RTFM man, RTFM....lol
-----Original Message-----
From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:04 PM
To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
I'm willing to give it a try -- but haven't a clue on how to implement
it. :)
Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of
> God)
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:19 PM
> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>
> I'm wondering if this may be a candidate for you to upgrade your MSDE
> to SQL Express.
>
> SQL Express manages memory much better than MSDE-- on my system, it
> currently only uses 1.6 Meg of RAM. IOW, it's not waiting for another
> app to ask for the RAM if it doesn't need it.
>
> Anybody willing to give this one a go? I can't do it on SBS but I can
> try it on an ISA 2004 install and see how it goes...
>
> t
>
>
> On 5/22/06 12:06 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> spoketh to all:
>
> > You've described the problem exactly. Where's the guidance?
> >
> > Amy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:17 PM
> > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >
> > Yes, other than the last post Jim sent out. Apparently there is an
> > issue where sometimes MSDN does NOT give it back. But then again, we
> > don't know if the OS is even asking for it back. The KB doesn't
> > really
> go into *why*
> > it
> > happens (it could be the way ISA is asking for memory for
> that matter)
> > but
> > it does specify how to limit the memory.
> >
> > But that just adds (I assume) to Amy's frustration as even in the
> > presence of an article that identifies an issue with MSDE memory and
> how to limit
> > it
> > there is no direction or indication of exactly what to
> limit it _to_ and
> > under what circumstances. The last bit about "Note The
> optimum physical
> > memory allocation for SQL Server may vary for your system"
> seems to be
> > some
> > what of a cop-out.
> >
> > t
> >
> >
> > On 5/22/06 10:47 AM, "Thomas W Shinder"
> <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh
> > to
> > all:
> >
> >> Well then, that is good news and argues for the NON-need
> to tweak the
> >> MSDE Max memory. Right?
> >>
> >> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> >> Site: www.isaserver.org
> >> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> >> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> >> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of
> >>> God)
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:05 AM
> >>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>
> >>> Right. MSDE fires up and grabs as much memory as it thinks it
> >>> needs from the OS. Other apps fire up, and ask the OS "dude, you
> >>> got any good memory for me?" and the OS gives it to them if
> >>> available. If it needs more than it has, the OS will ask MSDE for
> >>> some memory back. MSDE,
> since it was
> >>> developed to play nice with memory, will comply. Note that all
> >>> apps do not do this- but MSDE does.
> >>>
> >>> t
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/22/06 8:47 AM, "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> spoketh to all:
> >>>
> >>>> The problem is; other programs ask Windows, not other apps
> >>> for memory
> >>>> allocations.
> >>>> If process A owns 512MB of 1GB and process wants 640MB,
> >>> process B will get a
> >>>> failure response from Windows.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Jim Harrison
> >>>> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
> >>>> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
> >>>> http://isatools.org <http://isatools.org/>
> >>>> Read the help / books / articles!
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 08:14
> >>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Jim,
> >>>>
> >>>> But do you know if the MSDE instance will release memory to
> >>> other processes
> >>>> that require it? Or is it a 'grab and hold' operation?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> >>>> Site: www.isaserver.org
> >>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> >>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> >>>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:17 AM
> >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yep - this has been "in the wild" for some time now.
> >>>>> What we don't have (and a reasonable request) is how to
> >>> correlate ISA
> >>>>> logging load with MSDE memory requirements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:02 AM
> >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I bow to your superior knowledge...J
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I came across this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well it turns out that the max server memory setting in
> >>> MSDE (and SQL)
> >>>>> defaults to 2147483647Mb!! A little more digging and I
> found a SQL
> >>>>> script to change this memory. Copy the following into
> >>> notepad and save
> >>>>> as sqlmemorylimit.sql .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> USE master
> >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 1 RECONFIGURE
> >>> WITH OVERRIDE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> USE master
> >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'max server memory (MB)', 64 RECONFIGURE WITH
> >>>>> OVERRIDE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> USE master
> >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 0 RECONFIGURE
> >>> WITH OVERRIDE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With this SQL script saved we can now run it with the following
> >>>>> command.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> osql -E -S servername\MSFW -i c:\sqlmemorylimit.sql
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This will set the memory limit for MSDE to 64MB. Now you
> >>> are probably
> >>>>> thinking that 64MB is awefully low, and you are right.
> The box in
> >>>>> question only had 256MB ram, however I would suggest to
> set this to
> >>>>> 1/4 of the total amount of physical memory. As an example,
> >>> if you have
> >>>>> 1GB of memory, set this to 256MB.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>> On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:00 AM
> >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Steve,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is a way to set a limit on the MSDE process, but I
> >>> didn't think
> >>>>> there was a requirement to do so. My impression is that
> >>> the SBS admins
> >>>>> think that MSDE is a runaway process because it does
> use available
> >>>>> memory, so it looks like it taking too much. But I think
> >>> it releases
> >>>>> it to other processes that require it. At least that's what I
> >>>>> understand at this point. Maybe someone can prove it otherwise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> >>>>> Site: www.isaserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
> >>>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> >>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> >>>>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:43 AM
> >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As far as I know, it will release RAM when another app / process
> >>>>> requires it. I don't think there is any way to modify
> the behavior.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> S
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:57 PM
> >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [isapros] MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the SBS world when we switch to MSDE logging in ISA, the MSDE
> >>>>> service can end up taking all available ram unless we go
> >>> in and tell
> >>>>> it otherwise. Is there a rule of thumb for setting the ram
> >>> on the MSDE
> >>>>> instance for ISA? Something like X requests per minute
> = X mb ram?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Amy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
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