You may have to make it up as you go. -----Original Message----- From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:17 PM To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb Where's the FM on how to configure ISA 2004, ISA Server 2006 to use SQL Express instead of the ISA MSDE? Thomas W Shinder, M.D. Site: www.isaserver.org Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls > -----Original Message----- > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Moffat > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 5:57 PM > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > RTFM man, RTFM....lol > > -----Original Message----- > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:04 PM > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > I'm willing to give it a try -- but haven't a clue on how to implement > it. :) > > Thomas W Shinder, M.D. > Site: www.isaserver.org > Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ > Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 > MVP -- ISA Firewalls > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of > > God) > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:19 PM > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > > > I'm wondering if this may be a candidate for you to upgrade > your MSDE > > to SQL Express. > > > > SQL Express manages memory much better than MSDE-- on my system, it > > currently only uses 1.6 Meg of RAM. IOW, it's not waiting > for another > > > app to ask for the RAM if it doesn't need it. > > > > Anybody willing to give this one a go? I can't do it on > SBS but I can > > > try it on an ISA 2004 install and see how it goes... > > > > t > > > > > > On 5/22/06 12:06 PM, "Amy Babinchak" > <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > spoketh to all: > > > > > You've described the problem exactly. Where's the guidance? > > > > > > Amy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:17 PM > > > To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > > > > > Yes, other than the last post Jim sent out. Apparently > there is an > > > issue where sometimes MSDN does NOT give it back. But > then again, we > > > > don't know if the OS is even asking for it back. The KB doesn't > > > really > > go into *why* > > > it > > > happens (it could be the way ISA is asking for memory for > > that matter) > > > but > > > it does specify how to limit the memory. > > > > > > But that just adds (I assume) to Amy's frustration as even in the > > > presence of an article that identifies an issue with MSDE > memory and > > how to limit > > > it > > > there is no direction or indication of exactly what to > > limit it _to_ and > > > under what circumstances. The last bit about "Note The > > optimum physical > > > memory allocation for SQL Server may vary for your system" > > seems to be > > > some > > > what of a cop-out. > > > > > > t > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/06 10:47 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" > > <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh > > > to > > > all: > > > > > >> Well then, that is good news and argues for the NON-need > > to tweak the > > >> MSDE Max memory. Right? > > >> > > >> Thomas W Shinder, M.D. > > >> Site: www.isaserver.org > > >> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ > > >> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 > > >> MVP -- ISA Firewalls > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor > (Hammer of > > > >>> God) > > >>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:05 AM > > >>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>> > > >>> Right. MSDE fires up and grabs as much memory as it thinks it > > >>> needs from the OS. Other apps fire up, and ask the OS > "dude, you > > >>> got any good memory for me?" and the OS gives it to them if > > >>> available. If it needs more than it has, the OS will > ask MSDE for > > > >>> some memory back. MSDE, > > since it was > > >>> developed to play nice with memory, will comply. Note that all > > >>> apps do not do this- but MSDE does. > > >>> > > >>> t > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 5/22/06 8:47 AM, "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > spoketh to all: > > >>> > > >>>> The problem is; other programs ask Windows, not other apps > > >>> for memory > > >>>> allocations. > > >>>> If process A owns 512MB of 1GB and process wants 640MB, > > >>> process B will get a > > >>>> failure response from Windows. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> Jim Harrison > > >>>> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG > > >>>> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ > > >>>> http://isatools.org > > >>>> Read the help / books / articles! > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > > >>>> Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder > > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 08:14 > > >>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Jim, > > >>>> > > >>>> But do you know if the MSDE instance will release memory to > > >>> other processes > > >>>> that require it? Or is it a 'grab and hold' operation? > > >>>> > > >>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D. > > >>>> Site: www.isaserver.org > > >>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ > > >>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 > > >>>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Jim Harrison > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:17 AM > > >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Yep - this has been "in the wild" for some time now. > > >>>>> What we don't have (and a reasonable request) is how to > > >>> correlate ISA > > >>>>> logging load with MSDE memory requirements. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > >>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:02 AM > > >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I bow to your superior knowledge...J > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I came across this. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Well it turns out that the max server memory setting in > > >>> MSDE (and SQL) > > >>>>> defaults to 2147483647Mb!! A little more digging and I > > found a SQL > > >>>>> script to change this memory. Copy the following into > > >>> notepad and save > > >>>>> as sqlmemorylimit.sql . > > >>>>> > > >>>>> USE master > > >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 1 RECONFIGURE > > >>> WITH OVERRIDE > > >>>>> > > >>>>> USE master > > >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'max server memory (MB)', 64 > RECONFIGURE WITH > > >>>>> OVERRIDE > > >>>>> > > >>>>> USE master > > >>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 0 RECONFIGURE > > >>> WITH OVERRIDE > > >>>>> > > >>>>> With this SQL script saved we can now run it with the > following > > >>>>> command. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> osql -E -S servername\MSFW -i c:\sqlmemorylimit.sql > > >>>>> > > >>>>> This will set the memory limit for MSDE to 64MB. Now you > > >>> are probably > > >>>>> thinking that 64MB is awefully low, and you are right. > > The box in > > >>>>> question only had 256MB ram, however I would suggest to > > set this to > > >>>>> 1/4 of the total amount of physical memory. As an example, > > >>> if you have > > >>>>> 1GB of memory, set this to 256MB. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > >>>>> On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:00 AM > > >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi Steve, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> There is a way to set a limit on the MSDE process, but I > > >>> didn't think > > >>>>> there was a requirement to do so. My impression is that > > >>> the SBS admins > > >>>>> think that MSDE is a runaway process because it does > > use available > > >>>>> memory, so it looks like it taking too much. But I think > > >>> it releases > > >>>>> it to other processes that require it. At least that's what I > > >>>>> understand at this point. Maybe someone can prove it > otherwise. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D. > > >>>>> Site: www.isaserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/> > > >>>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ > > >>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Steve Moffat > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:43 AM > > >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> As far as I know, it will release RAM when another > app / process > > > >>>>> requires it. I don't think there is any way to modify > > the behavior. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> S > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Amy Babinchak > > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:57 PM > > >>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > >>>>> Subject: [isapros] MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> In the SBS world when we switch to MSDE logging in > ISA, the MSDE > > > >>>>> service can end up taking all available ram unless we go > > >>> in and tell > > >>>>> it otherwise. Is there a rule of thumb for setting the ram > > >>> on the MSDE > > >>>>> instance for ISA? Something like X requests per minute > > = X mb ram? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> thanks, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Amy > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >