[isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
- From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 14:18:59 -0700
I'm wondering if this may be a candidate for you to upgrade your MSDE to SQL
Express.
SQL Express manages memory much better than MSDE-- on my system, it
currently only uses 1.6 Meg of RAM. IOW, it's not waiting for another app
to ask for the RAM if it doesn't need it.
Anybody willing to give this one a go? I can't do it on SBS but I can try
it on an ISA 2004 install and see how it goes...
t
On 5/22/06 12:06 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
spoketh to all:
> You've described the problem exactly. Where's the guidance?
>
> Amy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:17 PM
> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>
> Yes, other than the last post Jim sent out. Apparently there is an
> issue
> where sometimes MSDN does NOT give it back. But then again, we don't
> know if
> the OS is even asking for it back. The KB doesn't really go into *why*
> it
> happens (it could be the way ISA is asking for memory for that matter)
> but
> it does specify how to limit the memory.
>
> But that just adds (I assume) to Amy's frustration as even in the
> presence
> of an article that identifies an issue with MSDE memory and how to limit
> it
> there is no direction or indication of exactly what to limit it _to_ and
> under what circumstances. The last bit about "Note The optimum physical
> memory allocation for SQL Server may vary for your system" seems to be
> some
> what of a cop-out.
>
> t
>
>
> On 5/22/06 10:47 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh
> to
> all:
>
>> Well then, that is good news and argues for the NON-need to tweak the
>> MSDE Max memory. Right?
>>
>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>> Site: www.isaserver.org
>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor
>>> (Hammer of God)
>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:05 AM
>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>
>>> Right. MSDE fires up and grabs as much memory as it thinks
>>> it needs from
>>> the OS. Other apps fire up, and ask the OS "dude, you got
>>> any good memory
>>> for me?" and the OS gives it to them if available. If it
>>> needs more than it
>>> has, the OS will ask MSDE for some memory back. MSDE, since it was
>>> developed to play nice with memory, will comply. Note that
>>> all apps do not
>>> do this- but MSDE does.
>>>
>>> t
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/22/06 8:47 AM, "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all:
>>>
>>>> The problem is; other programs ask Windows, not other apps
>>> for memory
>>>> allocations.
>>>> If process A owns 512MB of 1GB and process wants 640MB,
>>> process B will get a
>>>> failure response from Windows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jim Harrison
>>>> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
>>>> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
>>>> http://isatools.org
>>>> Read the help / books / articles!
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 08:14
>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>
>>>> But do you know if the MSDE instance will release memory to
>>> other processes
>>>> that require it? Or is it a 'grab and hold' operation?
>>>>
>>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>>>> Site: www.isaserver.org
>>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>>>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:17 AM
>>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep - this has been "in the wild" for some time now.
>>>>> What we don't have (and a reasonable request) is how to
>>> correlate ISA
>>>>> logging load with MSDE memory requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:02 AM
>>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>>
>>>>> I bow to your superior knowledge...J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I came across this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well it turns out that the max server memory setting in
>>> MSDE (and SQL)
>>>>> defaults to 2147483647Mb!! A little more digging and I found a SQL
>>>>> script to change this memory. Copy the following into
>>> notepad and save
>>>>> as sqlmemorylimit.sql .
>>>>>
>>>>> USE master
>>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 1 RECONFIGURE
>>> WITH OVERRIDE
>>>>>
>>>>> USE master
>>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'max server memory (MB)', 64 RECONFIGURE WITH
>>>>> OVERRIDE
>>>>>
>>>>> USE master
>>>>> EXEC sp_configure 'show advanced options', 0 RECONFIGURE
>>> WITH OVERRIDE
>>>>>
>>>>> With this SQL script saved we can now run it with the following
>>>>> command.
>>>>>
>>>>> osql -E -S servername\MSFW -i c:\sqlmemorylimit.sql
>>>>>
>>>>> This will set the memory limit for MSDE to 64MB. Now you
>>> are probably
>>>>> thinking that 64MB is awefully low, and you are right. The box in
>>>>> question only had 256MB ram, however I would suggest to set this to
>>>>> 1/4 of the total amount of physical memory. As an example,
>>> if you have
>>>>> 1GB of memory, set this to 256MB.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:00 AM
>>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a way to set a limit on the MSDE process, but I
>>> didn't think
>>>>> there was a requirement to do so. My impression is that
>>> the SBS admins
>>>>> think that MSDE is a runaway process because it does use available
>>>>> memory, so it looks like it taking too much. But I think
>>> it releases
>>>>> it to other processes that require it. At least that's what I
>>>>> understand at this point. Maybe someone can prove it otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>>>>> Site: www.isaserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>>>>> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>>>>> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:43 AM
>>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isapros] Re: MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, it will release RAM when another app / process
>>>>> requires it. I don't think there is any way to modify the behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:isapros-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:57 PM
>>>>> To: isapros@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [isapros] MSDE Ram Rule of Thumb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the SBS world when we switch to MSDE logging in ISA, the MSDE
>>>>> service can end up taking all available ram unless we go
>>> in and tell
>>>>> it otherwise. Is there a rule of thumb for setting the ram
>>> on the MSDE
>>>>> instance for ISA? Something like X requests per minute = X mb ram?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Amy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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