[isalist] Re: Virtualising ISA

  • From: "Jerry Young" <jerrygyoungii@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:19:49 -0400

Doncha just love arguing semantics? :)

My problem with linking the SVVP page (or even 944987) to this KB Article:
The KB Article topic is *supported *virtualization environments.  I see it
as guilt by association.

I just don't think it is 1) realistic or 2) pratical to assume that the
majority of readers who are looking for a statement of support are going to
dig to the level required to understand that a non-Microsoft virtualization
environment is not supported for any of the applications listed.

A simple statement as an additional note at the end of the introduction
section that states something like, "At this time, the applications listed
in this KB Article are only supported on Hyper-V; non-Microsoft
virtualization environments are not supported.  As this changes, updates
will be reflected." would really make this discussion go away. ;)

It's like being told to read the fine print: we all know we have to but are
irritated that it can't just simply be put forth up front because of the
frustration it causes.

You're right, though.  The reader should take enough of an interest to fully
understand what's written.  That's simple due diligence.  I'm just saying
make it easier to do so. :)

On 8/26/08, Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> While it's true that the burden of communication rests primarily with the
> speaker, some of the responsibility rests with the listener (reader) to
> actually absorb the content.  If you're only looking for keywords and
> -phrases, you'll find what you seek.
>
> In fact, this is stated on the SVVP page; which coincidentally, is the
> reference point for the SVVP program.  This is why only Hyper-V is listed in
> this KB.  The last thing we need is multiple places to clean up when (not
> if) the support statement changes for the various 3rd-party virtualization
> offerings.
> SVVP is the primary place to go and this is why it's "linked to" from that
> KB.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Jerry Young
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:35 AM
> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isalist] Re: Virtualising ISA
>
> Jim,
>
> "Right now, there are *_NO_* validated non-MS platforms."
>
> This is what needs to be clearly stated.  Again, depending on how you read
> it, a user may not get this.  My point is really simply that; when
> specifically put forth in the same way you just put it, there's no room for
> argument.  My guess is a lot of users out there will read into this the same
> way I did (optimistically), or worse yet, move forward thinking that support
> will come, only to run into an issue with said support when a problem occurs
> that requires it.  At the end of the day, fair or not, Microsoft gets the
> black eye.  By making it clear (without having to dig through links and
> guess at implied statements) upfront, I think greater value and service to
> the customers is provided.
>
>
> On 8/26/08, Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>        http://www.ISAserver.org
>        -------------------------------------------------------
>
>        It's only misleading if you read into it.  Let's take each bullet in
> turn:
>
>        *       Windows Server 2008 with Hyper-V
>        *       Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2008
>        [Jim] - ok; we'll take two at a time.  Hyper-V Server and Windows
> 2008 with Hyper-V are the same thing from the guest OS perspective and ISA
> is supported there.
>
>        *       Supported partners' virtualization software
>               For more information, click the following article number to
> view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
>               944987 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944987/) Support
> partners for non-Microsoft hardware virtualization software
>        [Jim] This article doesn't list supported virtualization
> products.  It lists virtualization support partners.  Novel has signed on to
> help provide support for non-MS virtualization; nothing more.  The bullet
> title in this article is misleading, but the article linked to is not.
>
>        *       Server Virtualization Validation Program (SVVP)
>               For more information, visit the following Microsoft Web site:
>               http://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp/ (
> http://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp/)
>        [Jim] - go read this link.  Right now, there are *_NO_* validated
> non-MS platforms.  Therefore, there are no supported 3rd-party hardware
> virtualization products (yet).  Therefore, no Microsoft products are
> supported on 3rd-party virtualization.  The vendors listed on that site are
> "participating"; their products *_have not_* completed testing.
>
>        Jim
>
>        -----Original Message-----
>        From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry Young
>        Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:02 AM
>        To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>        Subject: [isalist] Re: Virtualising ISA
>
>        Jim,
>
>        Then the KB Article 957006 is extremely misleading. :(
>
>        Here's an excerpt (in full) taken from the Introduction section.
>
>        This article discusses the support policy for running Microsoft
> server software in the following supported virtualization environments:
>
>
>        *       Windows Server 2008 with Hyper-V
>        *       Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2008
>        *       Supported partners' virtualization software
>               For more information, click the following article number to
> view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
>               944987 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944987/) Support
> partners for non-Microsoft hardware virtualization software
>        *       Server Virtualization Validation Program (SVVP)
>               For more information, visit the following Microsoft Web site:
>               http://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp/ (
> http://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp/)
>
>        In my interpreted version of this statement into layman terms, I
> read it as saying all of the bulleted environments are supported;
> specifically, any environment that is part of the Server Virtualization
> Validation Program.
>
>        If you visit that page, VMWare, Inc. is listed as a participating
> vendor.  If you then visit the Support link from that page, the first
> sentence states, "Technical support will be available for customers running
> a Windows Server operating system on a validated third-party
> hypervisor."  Since ESX Server is a hypervisor and participation implies (at
> this time, based on language) validation, the support statement does appear
> to be transitive.
>
>        I could not find anything specifically stating that the applications
> identified in the KB Article are only currently being supported in Hyper-V
> virtualized environments.
>
>        If Microsoft is going to withhold support of the applications
> identified in the KB Article on other vendor's virtualization environments,
> then some kind of language should be used indicating that such support is
> pending [insert qualifier].
>
>        Just my $0.02 worth.
>
>        On 8/26/08, Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>               http://www.ISAserver.org
>               -------------------------------------------------------
>
>               That KB lists the products that are supported on Hypervisor.
>               Greg's questions was specific to VMWare ESX.
>
>               This will be a very sticky question and
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897615/ provides the support limits.
>
>               -----Original Message-----
>               From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry Young
>               Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:46 AM
>               To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>               Subject: [isalist] Re: Virtualising ISA
>
>               Greg,
>
>               ISA Server is supported.
>
>               See the following KB Article for the full details on all
> supported virtualized applications from Microsoft.
>
>               http://support.microsoft.com/kb/957006
>
>               On 8/26/08, Greg Mulholland <greg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>                      http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>                      Jim and/or others
>
>                      Is there an official standpoint from MS as to
> supported requirements for ISA virtualised in production environments?
> (specifically ESX)
>
>                      Cheers
>
>                      Greg
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>
>
>
>
>               --
>               Cordially yours,
>               Jerry G. Young II
>               Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
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>        --
>        Cordially yours,
>        Jerry G. Young II
>        Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
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> --
> Cordially yours,
> Jerry G. Young II
> Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
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-- 
Cordially yours,
Jerry G. Young II
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

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