About as cute as saying it's your old neighborhood... You know your
condescending tone won't work with me, old man! And don't call me "Son."
That will only complicate things with your daughter. <G>
I'm well aware that the concepts were in place - I'm just saying that the
signal processors were not called "modems" until they were used to represent
digital signals via analog frequencies. You still haven't shown me anything
where the term "modem" was used in pre-1950 air defense usage, or pre-1962
AT&T Bell 103 usage. All research points to "modem" originally being used
as said device- it's all out there. In the absence of you providing
anything to the contrary, you have no support for your conclusion.
And *I'm* not the one confused by your monikers, Grandpa. Here's an easy
way to cut right to it. Answer this: Are you saying that a DSL Ethernet
Bridge connects to the PSTN network and transmits data via the PSTN the same
way that a Hayes modem does? Well???
t
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
My daughter's phone number is 1-800-382-5633.
..and now back to our as-yet-incomplete challenge, already in progress..
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:07 AM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
It may be "your" old neighborhood, but I build the playground... You're not that much older than I am, and certainly not better looking... So, how about provide some pre-1960 reference to the term "modem" where it is not used as a device to convert digital data to an analog signal over phone lines??
Even your reference point for DSL says so: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/modem1.htm
And now we're getting further away from the point-- a bridge is NOT a signal processor or converter- it is simply an 802.1d layer 2 Ethernet connector between interfaces.
DSL is a "digital" subscriber line that just uses the PSTN media, but not the same bandwidth as PSTN voice. The data is not passed as an "analog" wave. The *real* fact is that even in the land of PSTN, most switches are now all digital even for voice. I think we are slowly moving away from the point... If you want to get right down to it, it's ALL analog in regard to electromagnetic radiation-- we could go on forever here... so, just put a clamp on that gap of yours and give me your daughter's phone number, OK??? :-ppppppppppp
t
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
Like I said before - you're playing in my old neighborhood here... The term "modem" was defined and in use long before the computer industry got ahold of it and the term correctly applies to DSL devices that allow
As with the Hayes (and compatible) modems, DSL modems convert digital data to analog signals using audio modulation techniques. CAT5 == digital signaling; PSTN == analog signaling. You need a modem to "bridge" the two.
Whether you (dis)like the term "audio", the fact remains that PSTN is analog & CAT5 is digital; neither devices can understand the other signal type.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! --------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:03 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Today, yes. Originally, no. The "modem" was specifically designed to convert digital data into an analog wave as the carrier over PSTN's (and the reverse process). There was no "modem" application for DSL, Radio, etc. The "modem" was specifically invented just for that purpose (I'll let you research the history of "modem" on your own ;) Today, the term is obviously used in more general terms, hence the existence of this thread. But that was the basis of my original point- that it is not a "modem" in the original sense of the word or device.
Q: How many legs does an elephant have if you call the trunk a leg? A: Four. Calling the "trunk" a "leg" changes nothing.
And not to pick nits, but if you can't hear it, it's not "audio." Audio, by it's very definition and Latin origin means "I hear."
You know how pedantic I am... I just had to clear up that it's not "audio" and it's not a "modem." Is it a carrier signal based on modulation? You bet. Is it a modem sending audio signals? No way, no how.
t
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
Now you bees playing in my old neighborhood (Tom, get your daughter in on this). Let's not confuse "Hayes" with "modem".
A "modem" (Modulator / Demodulator) is nothing more than a signal translation device, regardless of its intended application (DSL, dial-up access, AM radio, etc.) - In the MODulation function, it uses a baseband signal (CAT5 in this case) to modify one or more aspects (phase, frequency, amplitude) of a carrier signal in a predefined manner. - In the DEModulator function, it performs a reverse process, extracting the baseband signal from the modified carrier signal.
Here's a reasonably decent discussion on how DSL signals are propagated: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl4.htm
It's not "audible" audio, but it is audio, nonetheless...
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:47 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
It depends on your definition of "audio." If you mean that the signaling is based on square waves of a fixed high and low amplitude at a particular frequency being interpreted as a digital signal, then OK. But if you are defining DSL's"audio" nature as the modulation of electromagnetic signals into true "sound" (which is what a modem does) by creating signals of amplitude, frequency and phase represented in the form of the typical trigonometric sine and cosine wave (analog), then I must respectfully disagree.
t
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
Ok, smarty-pants. The CAT5 electrical signals that represent the Ethernet traffic are used to modulate the audio between the modem & the DSLAM.
DSL is by nature, audio.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:19 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
I'm going to pretend like I never read that. Ethernet signals are used to modulate audio signals? I'll have a puff, please.
t
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
Actually, the ones that bridge Ethernet to telco are modems. They use the Ethernet signals to modulate the audio signals carried to the DSLAM.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:13 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Just like the marketroids call them "modems." There ain't a BIT o' analog modulation a'goin on...
----- "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
http://www.ISAserver.org
..but of course you have, oh Diva of SBS fame.
The marketroids call them "routers". Sometimes they're part of the modem; sometimes not. Sometimes they're configured for NAT, sometimes not. When it's not NAT-ing, it's acting like a hub (bridge).
In this case, the only interesting part is that the device is configured as a bridge.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! --------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Amy Babinchak [mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:37 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
What's a DSL bridge? I've never run into one of those in small business land.
Amy
Harbor Computer Services Small Business Computer Specialists
Client Blog: http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/ Tech Blog: http://isainsbs.blogspot.com/ Website: http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:10 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Oooo..k.
Jeff gets step #1. For those of us not "netsh-aware", the full command would be (assuming you named the external interface "north"): - netsh int ip add addr north 10.0.0.1 255.255.255.0
Alexandre gets "most sickliest response". :-p
To continue the challenge, answer the following questions: 1. why doesn't it work yet? 2. what non-GUI step must be taken to make it work?
..remember; ISA policies are not interesting yet.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! --------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Gauthier [mailto:gauthiera@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:01 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Your answer makes me moist in my special places.
-----Message d'origine----- De : Bunting, Jeff [mailto:BUNTING@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Envoyé : 28 décembre 2005 14:58 À : [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Objet : [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
how about with netsh interface ip add address
Jeff
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:29 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Remember; this is the "out of the GUI" challenge. How would you accomplish item 1 from the command line?
Also, it still won't work (incomplete). What other non-ISA, non-GUI steps must be taken?
#2 answered correctly.
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! --------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:07 AM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
1) Bind a additional static IP 10.0.0.X/24 to ISA External Interface 2) In case of dynamic IP, static IP can't assign as per 1)
forMerry Xmas & Happy New Year!
In the spirit of giving, here's a "think outside the GUI" challenge
itself.you.
Scenario: - ISA is connected directly to the Internet via a "manageable" DSL bridge - ISA uses 123.123.123.123/24 static external IP; DG = 123.123.123.1 - Internal LAN uses 10.9.8.x/24 - DSL bridge has unchangeable 10.0.0.2/24 internal IP - DSL bridge offers web-based management on that internal IP
Internet | DSL Bridge |- 10.0.0.2/24 |- 123.123.123.123/24 ISA |- 10.9.8.x/24 LAN
Note: - The DSL bridge internal IP is irrelevant to normal Internet access. Because it's operating in "bridge" (as opposed to NAT) mode, it's effectively transparent to the ISA for Internet traffic.
Challenges: 1. Allow either ISA-local or ISA-internal to access the DSL bridge web interface 2. Explain why the correct solution is impossible to implement if the ISP provides a dynamic IP.
Hint: - The core of the solution has nothing whatsoever to do with ISA
-------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! --------------------------------------------
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: bunting@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: gauthiera@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: http://www.techgenix.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
