[isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
- From: Steven Comeau <scomeau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:16:42 -0500
So, can’t we just export the 2006 Configuration (x32) into TMG( x64) – or won’t
that work? I mean, I ain’t got nothin’ fancy ‘cept some self-signed certs…
Steve Comeau
Associate Director of IT Rutgers Athletics
83 Rockafeller Road
Piscataway, NJ 08854
732-445-7802
732-445-4623 (fax)
www.scarletknights.com<http://www.scarletknights.com>
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From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 10:36 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Could you elaborate on what you mean by “the tone”?
While we realize we’re likely to upset some folks, that’s clearly not on the
list of goals for this doc..
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 7:02 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Originally, my point was I didn't like the tone of the unsupported configs doc.
I can now see the point of publishing this so people can know what they are
getting into ahead of time.
2nd point: As with all things, I know when migrating 32 bit to 64 bit is
necessary. When we "tore down the network", it wasn't because we didn't know
what we were doing, it was an intentional redesign with days / weeks of
planning. I'm usually the first one to suggest the 64-bit deal if it's an
option. I just said it sucks - as in, it's not conveinient. EVEN IF a direct
path were offered for 32-bit to 64-bit migration were technically feasable, I
would STILL go with a clean install for the 64-bit for obvious reasons.
As I said before, TMG as a product is fine.
J
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 26, 2009, at 10:39 PM, "Thor (Hammer of God)"
<thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
You misunderstood what I said: I wasn’t saying to tear down the entire network
to get it to X64 – I was saying to John, “remember when we tore down the
network,” (and did not go into those reasons, as he knows). We had very good
reason to have to do so – and DID so in a corporate environment. If anyone was
going to do the stoning it was us. The point is that sometimes you have to do
things you don’t want to do in order to get to the “right place.” You just
have to define what “the right place” is. Migrating 14 servers is no big
deal. Migrating 1400 just requires a proper plan of action...
No one said this would be easy. If anyone could do this, they wouldn’t need
us- they’d hire college kids… KNOWING the difference between TMG and ISA, I
can why they did what they did… If others don’t want to upgrade (for reasons
that I personally would call “lazy”) then that’s fine. They don’t have to.
If dude wants to can TMG/ISA because he doesn’t feel like doing the work, then
goody for thim… That’s what my point was.
t
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Greg Mulholland
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:52 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
That’s really great, but i’m not about to ‘tear down my entire’ network to get
it to x64. In a corporate environment you’d be stoned to death for even
mentioning such. I kind of agree with everyone a little bit, i personally am
planning a swing migration as its the best way i find i can reduce the downtime
window to me end users. It was always the same with Exchange 2007 and Moss and
others deal with it if you want it, if it doesn’t add value to you then you are
not bound to upgrade, the choice is yours.
Jim is right where there have been many hidden unsupported config’s for MS
products and ive only found out after ive installed the product when problems
occur. Personally i’d rather know before hand.
Hope you all had a good Christmas.
Greg
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Thursday, 24 December 2009 5:59 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
First off, I very much respect your opinion… But we had x86 to x64
conversations YEARS ago… Remember when we tore down the entire network and
rebuilt it from scratch? It was necessary.. Sometimes you have to do that.
We have to progress, and sometimes doing so is not easy.
t
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:42 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
I read the list of unsupported scenarios. While I agree there is a certain
extent of necessity of unsupported configs due to the changes in underlying
code /technologies, to me, this reads off on a wrong note.
It's almost like Microsoft has taken a "You have to a given configuration, or
else the product is not supported." attitude. In the past, I think they have
been more of a "technology empowers business" attitude. The shift in mentality,
for this piece of product documentation at least, bothers me.
Hey, this may be just me reading it the wrong way, but if I was using ISA 2006
in organization, I could see where the decision makers would look at the list
of unsupported configurations and say, "ISA and TMG costs a lot in liscensing,
and seems like it isn't as flexible as the older product. Let's look at other
options."
That may or may not be a fair statement. But if I showed the documentation to
certain people, I'm sure the project to upgrade wouldn't get approved.
As far as 32-bit 2003 to 64-bit 2008 with no direct upgrade path, that sucks.
But its the same issue users faced migrating from Exchange 2003 to Exchange
2007. So it's not a new thing. It's to be expected for certain products if you
want to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture.
John Wilson
________________________________
From: Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
<isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 1:05:35 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Since you're interested in maintaining service during the change from ISA to
TMG, you can't use an in-place upgrade anyway. At some point in any in-place
upgrade process, that server is off-line. No getting around it.
Have you ever considered a rolling upgrade?
At most, it costs you 1 or 2 extra servers (that can be included or repurposed
afterwards) and allows you to "silently" move your users from one deployment to
another.
If you do this on virtual deployments, it's even easier.
Chapter 6 in the TMG book (also to be a sample chapter) is dedicated to this
thought process and offers an example of "rolling" from ISA 2006 SE to TMG EE.
..it's only as hard as you choose to make it.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of D PIETRUSZKA USWRN INTERLINK INFRA
SHIFT MGR [DPietruszka@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:57 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
For the OS don’t use excuses, Microsoft always did the same with ISA and lately
with a lot of other products just to force you to migrate to 64 bits or 2008.
And the instances, I have 14 (well there are 2 others not really in use) ISAs
servers in total, believe me I would find out a way to continue protecting the
network or providing proxy service while migrating other boxes.
It is just a pain in …. to always do the same thing, that is why I promised
last time to don’t migrate to the next ISA version, the pain that was move from
2004 to 2006 was not worth the advantages on the new version.
Believe me I’m closer to look for other products rather than upgrading, that is
why I would like to read about the advantages.
Regards
Diego R. Pietruszka
MIS - Shift Manager
MSC (USA) - Interlink Transport Technologies
Direct Phone: (908)605-4147
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 12:45 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
When you figure out how to do an "in place upgrade" from WS03 x86 to WS08 x64,
you let us know?
..oh; and while you're at it, be sure to describe how the ISA 2006 instance is
to continue operating (necessary for an in-place upgrade) on WS08 x64?
Seriously; some in-place changes just aren't possible.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of D PIETRUSZKA USWRN INTERLINK INFRA
SHIFT MGR [DPietruszka@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:41 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Is there any link with a description of the advantages or new features of TMG
over ISA2006? I want to see if playing the crappy Microsoft game of never offer
an in place upgrade is worth or not the effort.
Thanks
Regards
Diego R. Pietruszka
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 12:33 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Shouldn’t one say “TMG is not supported on ‘certain’ editions” rather than “on
all editions? It makes it sound like every edition of 2008 is not supported.
t
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:29 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [isalist] TMG Unsupported
We just published the “unsupported stuff” for TMG on TechNet.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee796231.aspx is your link of
reference.
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