[isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
- From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:07:45 -0800
Shall I remind you of my M6? Or my 550I? Or my Z4? Your WRC is a
shmeckelmobile...
t
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steve Moffat
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:58 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Ahhh...b@st@rds....I miss my Imprezza WRC
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:07 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Musta been a bad apple - all my Subarus (I've had 5) have all been great.
Real workhorses, they is.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of
Steven Comeau [scomeau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 2:29 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Not the Subaru I once had....
Steve Comeau
Associate Director of IT Rutgers Athletics
83 Rockafeller Road
Piscataway, NJ 08854
732-445-7802
732-445-4623 (fax)
www.scarletknights.com<http://www.scarletknights.com>
[cid:image001.png@01CA8403.35C71BD0]
[cid:image002.jpg@01CA8403.35C71BD0]
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:58 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Wrong question.
The question is can you justify the upgrade in the context of the added
features or improved firewall?
I prefer to think of TMG as a Subaru - it may not have the prettiest paint job
and you certainly don't pay Beemer (read Syphco) prices, but this bad boy will
get you there and back and maintenance won't cost you a leftie....
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of
Steven Comeau [scomeau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 12:08 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
"Answer me this - Do I really need the 2010 BMW, or is the 2006 model really
freaking hot too? I guess thats the question."
Well, are both convertibles? If yes, then there's not much difference....
Steve Comeau
Associate Director of IT Rutgers Athletics
83 Rockafeller Road
Piscataway, NJ 08854
732-445-7802
732-445-4623 (fax)
www.scarletknights.com<http://www.scarletknights.com>
[cid:image003.png@01CA8403.35C71BD0]
[cid:image002.jpg@01CA8403.35C71BD0]
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 3:01 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
A) I was referring to a ISA 2006 on Server 2003 32-bit to TMG on Server 2008
64-bit upgrade. It's not a broad generalization to compare that to the Exchange
2003 on Windows Server 32-bit to Exchange 2007 on Server 2008 migration.
Exchange 2003 was purely 32-bit, and I thought 2007 was only supported in
production as a 64-bit deployment.
B) Yes, we're ready for Exchange 2010. I' actually quite excited about it. We
readily deploy technology when /where it's needed.
C) Thor - You know I love to rip apart and redesign with the lastest tools and
tech. However, I've also learned a lot in the last few years. While the newest
product offers many bells and whistles and security enhancements, I live for
that stuff. But I have to balance the newest gear / software with stability.
This is what I mean by that- I have to test that in my lab at the house for
months before I can say, "I know this technology in and out, and I can stand
behind the fact I can deploy this with minimum downtime, transparancy to the
users, and absolute zero unexpected behaivior." Where I work, I've got much of
the experience when it comes to Microsoft products. So if I deploy something,
if it's wrong, it's squarely on my shoulders. When you aim for excellence,
you've got to deliver.
All that being said, TMG is a good product. I'm just hesitant to deploy it at a
large organization when the value-add may not be worth all the reconfigurtion.
Answer me this - Do I really need the 2010 BMW, or is the 2006 model really
freaking hot too? I guess thats the question.
John Wilson
________________________________
From: Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 2:22:44 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Actually, it doesn't.
Exchange 2007 is supported on WS08 x64; ISA 2006 was not. Consequently, if your
Exch 2007 deployment was installed on WS08 x64, you could potentially do an
in-place upgrade (other factors weigh in here).
You really should avoid such broad generalizations; they confuse more than they
help.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of
D PIETRUSZKA USWRN INTERLINK INFRA SHIFT MGR [DPietruszka@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:14 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
You better be ready for exchange 2010, cause is following the same Microsoft
path.
Regards
Diego R. Pietruszka
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 1:42 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
I read the list of unsupported scenarios. While I agree there is a certain
extent of necessity of unsupported configs due to the changes in underlying
code /technologies, to me, this reads off on a wrong note.
It's almost like Microsoft has taken a "You have to a given configuration, or
else the product is not supported." attitude. In the past, I think they have
been more of a "technology empowers business" attitude. The shift in mentality,
for this piece of product documentation at least, bothers me.
Hey, this may be just me reading it the wrong way, but if I was using ISA 2006
in organization, I could see where the decision makers would look at the list
of unsupported configurations and say, "ISA and TMG costs a lot in liscensing,
and seems like it isn't as flexible as the older product. Let's look at other
options."
That may or may not be a fair statement. But if I showed the documentation to
certain people, I'm sure the project to upgrade wouldn't get approved.
As far as 32-bit 2003 to 64-bit 2008 with no direct upgrade path, that sucks.
But its the same issue users faced migrating from Exchange 2003 to Exchange
2007. So it's not a new thing. It's to be expected for certain products if you
want to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture.
John Wilson
________________________________
From: Jim Harrison <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 1:05:35 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Since you're interested in maintaining service during the change from ISA to
TMG, you can't use an in-place upgrade anyway. At some point in any in-place
upgrade process, that server is off-line. No getting around it.
Have you ever considered a rolling upgrade?
At most, it costs you 1 or 2 extra servers (that can be included or repurposed
afterwards) and allows you to "silently" move your users from one deployment to
another.
If you do this on virtual deployments, it's even easier.
Chapter 6 in the TMG book (also to be a sample chapter) is dedicated to this
thought process and offers an example of "rolling" from ISA 2006 SE to TMG EE.
..it's only as hard as you choose to make it.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of
D PIETRUSZKA USWRN INTERLINK INFRA SHIFT MGR [DPietruszka@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:57 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
For the OS don't use excuses, Microsoft always did the same with ISA and lately
with a lot of other products just to force you to migrate to 64 bits or 2008.
And the instances, I have 14 (well there are 2 others not really in use) ISAs
servers in total, believe me I would find out a way to continue protecting the
network or providing proxy service while migrating other boxes.
It is just a pain in .... to always do the same thing, that is why I promised
last time to don't migrate to the next ISA version, the pain that was move from
2004 to 2006 was not worth the advantages on the new version.
Believe me I'm closer to look for other products rather than upgrading, that is
why I would like to read about the advantages.
Regards
Diego R. Pietruszka
MIS - Shift Manager
MSC (USA) - Interlink Transport Technologies
Direct Phone: (908)605-4147
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 12:45 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
When you figure out how to do an "in place upgrade" from WS03 x86 to WS08 x64,
you let us know?
..oh; and while you're at it, be sure to describe how the ISA 2006 instance is
to continue operating (necessary for an in-place upgrade) on WS08 x64?
Seriously; some in-place changes just aren't possible.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of
D PIETRUSZKA USWRN INTERLINK INFRA SHIFT MGR [DPietruszka@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:41 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Is there any link with a description of the advantages or new features of TMG
over ISA2006? I want to see if playing the crappy Microsoft game of never offer
an in place upgrade is worth or not the effort.
Thanks
Regards
Diego R. Pietruszka
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 12:33 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: TMG Unsupported
Shouldn't one say "TMG is not supported on 'certain' editions" rather than "on
all editions? It makes it sound like every edition of 2008 is not supported.
t
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:29 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] TMG Unsupported
We just published the "unsupported stuff" for TMG on TechNet.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee796231.aspx is your link of
reference.
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Rutgers University - DIA
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accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
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If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
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