RE: Server publishing
- From: "Thor" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:10:45 -0700
Oh, I did read what you said, dude. It just didn't make any sense given the
configuration... There is no publication of SQL from the external IP in
that config, so hiding the SQL box (the one on the internal network) would
do nothing. But of course, "hiding" it does nothing anyway... Maybe I'm
missing something, though... It's been a long day.
I don't question if that configuration is used at many sites... In fact, I'm
aware that configurations like that, where you have a shared username and
password on a machine in the DMZ that is duplicated (and can then be used)
in the internal network, are used all over the place. That doesn't make it
secure. Quite the opposite, actually.
You guys can set it up however you want, but the purpose of a DMZ is to
delay attackers long enough to be detected and stopped. Giving an attacker
a username and password that can be used on an internal machine, then giving
them a protocol stream that would go basically un-monitored ('cause it would
look like normal traffic) along with a path into the internal network is
simply insecure. You can call it paranoid if you like, but that
configuration directly weakens the foundation of the structure put in place
to stop that kind of thing in the first place. I mean, you take a
back-to-back PIX scheme with an ISA back-end, and then provide a clear path
to the internal network. Paranoid? Not in my opinion. But hey, WTF do I
know? :-p
And I'm sure that I'll be having dinner (or at least drinks) with my good
buddy Joel Scambray who owns MSN security at Blackhat Vegas. If he uses
that configuration, I promise that I'll kick him in the ding ding (with Jim
as a witness.) :))))
t
----- Original Message -----
From: "josephk" <josephk@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:01 PM
Subject: [isalist] RE: Server publishing
http://www.ISAserver.org
Read what I said dude. I said that other SQL machines won't be able to
connect to it. I did not mention that it
Would fix security issues. The configuration that I sent Nathan has been
tested and used here and at many sites.
MSN.COM uses something similar. If someone gets that far into your
network then you have serious problems.
If real time is not an issue then maybe setting up MSMQ to do transfers
would work. There is some programming
Involved but would still work. Or you could create secure web services
to do data reading and updating.
It really depends on how paranoid you are.
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:48 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Server publishing
http://www.ISAserver.org
A few bits queried to udp1434, and your SQL Server will spill its guts
as to where multiple instances are listening. "Hiding" is no security
option.
Besides, in the model described, it doesn't matter. You could have the
DMZ web server talking to the internal box on 341433 for that matter,
and any compromise of the web box would reveal that-- regardless of if
you block the multiple instance query or not... The config on the web
server tells all... You'd still have to have that TCP port statically
open to the internal network, where MSSQL would be listening. That
won't stop SQL injection, won't stop anything, really-- other than a
worm that was loosed in the DMZ itself.
The bottom line is that the ISA server, given the listed config, doesn't
buy you anything (from a server pub standpoint) other than what Shawn
brought up regarding limiting requests.
Nathan-- even if you need updates from data posted to the DMZ server to
the Internal server, that doesn't mean you can't still use one-way
traffic to accomplish this. Just run jobs from the inside that grab the
data from the outside. I do it all day every day with no issues. You
can even do a "run while idle" job if you want to that would basically
constantly run the job. Of course, "run when idle" jobs require the
MSSQL service to run as local admin (or SYSTEM) so that is kinda risky.
----- Original Message -----
From: "josephk" <josephk@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: [isalist] RE: Server publishing
http://www.ISAserver.org
With SQL you can hide the box on your network. Meaning that other SQL
machines won't be able to see it. When you use this method it changes
the port that SQL uses to 2433. Then the common types of worms Don't
know if there is anything on 1433 or not.
Thank you,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:49 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Server publishing
http://www.ISAserver.org
Well, it will add an "additional layer of complexity," but only in
regard to your network topology. To be pedantic, Server Publishing 1433
won't "proxy" anything... I will just pass the traffic along
transparently (unless the back-end is a different subnet, in which case
it will be NAT'd, but still, no difference.)
t
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Casey" <NCASEY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:17 PM
Subject: [isalist] RE: Server publishing
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> We want the ISA server to add an additional layer of complexity for
> external access to internal resources. The ISA server would be set as
> a reverse proxy to pass requests, authentication, etc to the SQL
> server
>
> >>> Shawn.Quillman@xxxxxxxxxxxx 7/1/2004 12:11:18 PM >>>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
>
> Yes. The only time you can have 1 adapter is when ISA is
> in cache-only
> mode in which situation you can only web publish. The
> config you show
> doesn't really make sense, the ISA would be redundant. You would just
> publish the SQL server via the internal PIX. What is it you're trying
> to accomplish with the ISA?
>
> -Shawn
>
>
> -----
> Shawn R. Quillman
> Robert Bosch Corporation RBNA/CSA1
> 38000 Hills Tech Drive
> Farmington Hills, MI 48331
> (248) 553-1164 (P) (248) 848-6969 (F) shawn.quillman@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nathan [mailto:ncasey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:40 PM
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] Server publishing
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> With server publishing, if I publish a SQL server that sits on the
> internal network, does my ISA server need 2 adapters? The SQL server
> is acting as a back-end database server for a Web site which
> is hosted on
> web server in a PIX DMZ.
> If I do need 2 adapters for server publishing can they both
> reside in
> PIX DMZ's? My network security guy wants all incoming
> traffic to go
> trough the PIX firewall
>
> Internet Router
> (Public IP)
> |
> |
> PIX FIREWALL
> |
> |
> Web server
> |
> |
> PIX FIREWALL
> *internal Network*
> |
> |
> ISA SERVER
> |
> |
> SQL SERVER
>
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