RE: Minimum Protocol Rules by Service Type List

  • From: "Thor \(Hammer of God\)" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:28:02 -0800

That's odd... I push-installed *your* MOM agent without any problems.  <bfg>

But on a serious note, it is surprising to see how much NetBIOS/CIFS traffic is requested, even in the presence of a current Kerberos ticket - that and RPC traffic to the DC's (like when you are in Outlook 2003, requesting a concurrent SQL connection under different creds, etc.)

It's quite interesting to correlate local NetMon dumps to the ISA logs-- I've been staring at them for the last several hours, and have discerned what I think is an "affinity" of ISA to not display logged traffic. For instance, if I make an integrated authentication connection to a SQL server after all connections have been closed, ISA logs the Kerberos traffic on reconnect (as does local NetMon.) However, if I disconnect and reconnect within a few seconds, I can see that the client's ticket is checked in NetMon, though ISA does not show the connection request to the DC as accepted and/or established. Kind of odd, but I have not fully explored why yet.

I'll keep on it, though I know I'll have more NetMon/ISA sex dreams tonight. Don't ask.

t


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: [isalist] RE: Minimum Protocol Rules by Service Type List



http://www.ISAserver.org

Mos' definitely!

For instance, I had an opportunity to answer the question of "why does
SCM work remotely against ISA when WMI calls don't?"

The answer (via judicious use of NetMon) is that SCM uses NetBIOS calls,
and WMI uses DCOM.
NetBIOS can be handled easily by ISA policies, but DCOM can't.
Come to think of it, this is probably the main reason Raji can't
push-install the MOM agent.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Mulholland [mailto:greg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:26 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Minimum Protocol Rules by Service Type List

http://www.ISAserver.org

Thor

Let me jump on Tom's shoulders here and say, "what he said" Ive often
thought of doing it in a larger, more funner environment, but never had
the real time or authority to be able to do it. Its definately a cool
process and we do do it to some degree in smaller environments where we
are able to. Let me know if you need help for anything as Toms said, i'd
be willing to jump on board if you hit a snag and havent got the skillz
to finish something :p... or just want a scenario tested...

Greg Mulholland

________________________________

From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wed 30/11/2005 4:13 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Minimum Protocol Rules by Service Type List



http://www.ISAserver.org

Hey Tim,

This would be REALLY COOL. As far as I know, there's nothing like this
out there. I have lot of articles covering specific scenarios, but none
of them include SQL or backup agents, because A. I don't know squat
about SQL and B. the herterogenrous backup agent evironment makes me
avoidant because I know it'll generate requests for all the other
vendors.

However, you're younger, smarter and stronger than me, so you might be
able to handle it -- or since your kids are still young, you're better
able to resist requests for MORE.

I've often thought of doing the same thing with my network, which is
production full tilt for us. Four multihomed ISA firewall's serving
three Internet links, three domains, Exchange 2003 (no cluster),
SharePoint Portal Server, IIS sites, MOM, spam whackers, LCS, VoIP,
Windows Media Services, blah blah blah. Lots of whacky POC stuff that
I've never written about, but worked pretty neat, so I decided to keep
it. Maybe I'll like yours so much I'll show mine too :)

So, count me in as thinking this is a great idea. You'll introduce a ton
of good stuff that's not out there yet! Let me know if want any help,
comment, or whatever for this project. If its too long for the venues
you usually publish in, you're welcome to put it up at ISAserver.org and
use as many words, graphics and whatever you want. Maybe after that, I
can suck you into becoming a regular author for the site :-)))  We need
a mensa kinda guy for the site, since we lost ours to Microsoft LCA. :(

Tom

Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/drisa/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- ISA Firewalls
**Who is John Galt?**



-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:58 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Minimum Protocol Rules by Service Type List

http://www.ISAserver.org

Yo.

In staying true to the concepts of least privilege and
security in depth, I
have been testing the minimum allowed protocols required to
support various
client-server services.  The data I am collecting comes from
bottom-up,
step-by-step live protocol analysis-- this for two reasons:
I've not seen a
comprehensive list of "this is what you have to allow for X,"
and of the
documentation I have seen, most of it includes catch-all protocol
recommendations rather than the minimum rules necessary.

The reason I bring this up is to get a consensus from the
group on whether
or not I should document my findings in such a way as to publish the
results-- If something like this already exists, I don't want
to re-invent
the wheel.  If not, I should heavily document my findings in order to
provide a comprehensive list.

For instance- SQL authentication using "mixed mode
authentication" simply
requires a single "SQL Sever TCP 1433 Outbound" from the
client set to the
individual server.  Integrated authentication via a standard
library client
(such as Query Analyzer) not only requires "SQL Server TCP
1433 Outbound" to
the SQL host, but it also requires at least "Kerberos-Sec
(UDP)" (UDP 88
Send Receive) and "LDAP (UDP)" (UDP 389 Send Receive) from
the client to the
domain controller set.  More "robust" clients, such as MS
Access using a SQL
Library require a full LDAP (TCP 389) connection from the
client to the
domain controller set.  While "LDAP (UDP)" may be forced,
projects digitally
signed with a certificate require the TCP connection based on
my testing.
This is the type of data I'm considering collecting for publication.

The primary reason I am doing this is because my network
admin (John Wilson)
and I have decided to rebuild our entire infrastructure in a
*true* least
privilege environment.  We will completely separate our entire server
infrastructure from all clients with an *internal* ISA 2004
configured to
only allow the minimum protocols through on a host-by-host,
service-by-service, user-group by user-group basis.  This
will not be a
test-- this will be in a total Microsoft production
environment: clustered
SQL servers, clustered Exchange servers, multiple domain
controllers ( group
policy deployments, certificate services, etc) NAS devices,
shared printers,
web services, backup agents, custom application
developments... the Full
Monty.  I've never seen this done in a production environment
(though I've
heard many people postulate about it) so I'm kind of excited
about all of
this.

So, the main question is: Does a resource like this already
exist somewhere?
I figga that if anyone would know, it would be the folks on this list.

t


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